07/20/05 05:00:32
Northern Machine (self) Interview (circa 2000)
07/20/05 05:00:32
Northern Machine (self) Interview (circa 2000)
CATEGORY: interview
MEMBERS
( comments)
Pat Gillis & Bill Warford
ACTIVITIES
We've got four (cassette) releases on Hoffman Cleaner Cathode Company (HC3) two of which will soon be CDs. At this point,we have finished a fifth release for CD and are busy on a sixth one. We have our own recording facilites and HC3 has been supportive of our rather lenghthy recording periods for these projects. Our sound involves synths, rhythm machines, all manner of percussion, guitars, basses, voices and electronic processing.
UNIQUE
We originally started out doing soundtracks for independent film projects in 1985. After releasing several recordings, we once again find ourselves contracted for film work.
GENTLEMEN, WOULD YOU LIKE SOME DRUGS?
Thank you. Yes.
WHAT ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO SAY TO THE WORLD THROUGH YOUR MUSIC THAT HAS NOT BEEN SAID BEFORE AND BETTER BY SOMEONE ELSE?
bw: simple sharing of personal perception -- parts of Surge Zone expressed the frustration and reflection I experienced in that time period. sharing amazement -- there were attempts to portray things heard during altered states of consciousness. On The Lost Signal, I think we both were more intent on bringing those places and events of the psychedelic landscape into sharp audio focus.
pg: I'd have to preface my answer by saying that it takes into consideration all of Northern Machine's output to date. I think what we're trying to present is an expansive view of a world wherein the perceived range of possibilities is becoming ever more constricted. It seems to me that the more information we are inundated with and the more our time is "usefully" occupied, the less chance any one of us has to excercise our interpretive powers and construct our own relationship with the universe in manner that has any value to us. What I'd like to do with sound is to try to jump start the listener's inner eyes and ears to interpretive possibilities not on offer on MTV or in the latest Soleimoon catalogue. Presumptuous, eh?
THE LOST SIGNAL, YOUR LATEST RECORDING HAS JUST BEEN RELEASED, AND YOU'RE WORKING ON YOUR SIXTH ONE. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?
Don't expect a rehash of, or sequel to, The Lost Signal. After the many months we spent working on each compostion for that, we've approached the new one with very specific parameters intended to prevent us from repeating ourselves or running into some of the frustrations we encountered during the recording process. The pieces are a good deal shorter than almost all of the ones on The Lost Signal and more rhythmically structured. It's not easy to say too much about it right now, because it's overarching thematic concerns have not been determined, or, as happens sometimes, presented themselves to us.
07/25/05 10:35:36
The Ragbirds Interview
CATEGORY: interview
TELL US ABOUT THE BAND
( comments)
The Ragbirds began with songwriter, violinist and vocalist Erin Zindle and percussionist Randall Moore in their search to create fresh original songs sprouting out of their love for world music and their desire to weave these distant sounds into more familiar genres- folk-rock, pop, and even some blues. In autumn, 2004 they joined with guitarist/vocalist Adam Labeaux, bassist Jeff Stinson, and percussionist Greg White, who shared the vision of combining these global and local elements. In April, 2005, the Ragbirds released thier debut CD, Yes Nearby, an independent full-length album consisting of 12 well-crafted songs. The CD is already garnering acclaim and the band itself is drawing an ever increasing number of fans to its shows. In live performances, the band incorporates traditional African drum pieces, each member trading their instrument for a nearby hand drum. Their unique fusion of roots folk, world groove, and pop sensibility gets audiences of all ages and sizes up and dancing.
TELL US ABOUT THE ALBUM
I(Erin)set out on this recording journey not sure if I had enough money to finish, or who would play the parts I couldn't, or what I'd do with it when it was done. I just knew it had to be done.
The songs had grown inside me for a few years - through band break-ups and thwarted attempts at new projects, through financial heartache, loss, and divorce.
I was living with a good friend in Ypsilanti, MI who had magnetic poetry on her fridge. One morning I read, "No, but she feels yes nearby" and realized this summarized my life at the time and all my music.
The "No" was loud, but the money just kept turning up and the music kept creating itself. Randall and many talented friends joined in to fill in the gaps, and the songs took on life.
Meanwhile, the other Ragbirds, Adam, Greg and Jeff, came together one by one as the recording progressed. . . Their fingerprints are all over the music on the CD. We have been very happy with the success of the album so far. Thom Jurek, in his review on www.allmusic.com said, "This is evidence of the very best of what contemporary independent pop music has to offer."
The response has been overwhelmingly positive.
WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW?
The Ragbirds can be seen performing regularly all over the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti music scene, spreading in ever-widening circles throughout Michigan and as far as Ohio and New York, stirring up a buzz everywhere they go. They can be heard on local radio (including regular play on 107.1) and read about in local papers and online reviews. New songs are added to the setlist every week lately and there is easily enough new material for another album.
WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE WEBSITE?
http://myspace.com
WHAT'S COMING UP?
We hope to be touring more nationally next year and hitting more fesivals. We love to travel. The goal for us is to be able to sustain a living by performing music, and to have time to be continually creating new songs. Huge success would be great on our own terms, but a true buzzing underground fan base is more realistically where we see ourselves. Josh Hurst from Revealarts said, "I feel like I've stumbled across a band that's destined to achieve the same level
of cult-greatness as The Innocence Mission, Bruce Cockburn, Ron Sexsmith, Sufjan Stevens and yes, even Over the Rhine."
That would be a cool prophecy if it came true.
But where we'll end up, only God knows.
contact: Erin Zindle (ebird)
07/25/05 10:43:18
Cult of Sue Todd interview
CATEGORY: interview
TELL US ABOUT THE BAND
( comments)
Cult of Sue Todd is a four- or five-piece band from San Francisco. The name means something corporate. It's not for us to say what. We're fascinated by see-saws. They are some of the strangest things. I wish there was a donut shop in my town with a giant boy holding a donut over his head--you know, like that Simpsons Halloween episode? That would make me laugh every day I saw it--and probably some days I didn't.
TELL ABOUT THE ALBUM
Of course people will want this album. It's catchy like an old virus, but unique like a new virus. How many times will you hear a flanged and distorted guitar beneath a banjo tinkle-tinkle? It's not as cool as a giant donut, but it's still pretty good.
WHAT'S GOING ON?
We're playing throughout August and then we'll start recording a new CD. We'll probably recruit Flaming Lips to help out, but I don't know, they get on my nerves sometimes. So we might tell them to stick it. Either way, our CD should be out next year sometime.
YOUR FAVORITE WEB SITE
http://www.ucomics.com/calvinandhobbes
WHAT'S COMING UP?
We just want to keep recording. We don't really care if anyone likes it.
contact: Steven from Cult of Sue Todd
07/25/05 10:48:04
Bullets&Bubblegum interview
CATEGORY: interview
TELL US ABOUT THE BAND
( comments)
Bullets&Bubblegum was born in Cleveland, Ohio, when Vic and Kim met at coffee house open mic night in 1998. The two immediately began writing songs. The duo relocated to Eugene, Oregon, in 1999, where they released their demo and first cd in 2000. Bullets&Bubblegum performed live, utilizing prerecorded drum machine and bass tracks as their rhythm foundation. Their demo cd received much attention after being highlighted in the number one slot in the top ten of the Seattle Rocket's 1999 Demo-Listen Derby. After a nostalgic move back to Cleveland in 2001, Vic and Kim finally decided to make Portland, Oregon, their base of operations. In 2003, the band released their second effort, an EP titled: Ecclesiophobia. In 2003, Vic and Kim connected with drummer Amy through an ad they placed in local papers. Amy added just the right momentum and spice to take the Bullets&Bubblegum sound in a new direction. Alhough the band occasionally performs live, they are now committed to developing their sound predominantly as a recording project, finding true fulfillment in its studio productions.
TELL US ABOUT THE ALBUM
Crave For Gone is pure Bullets&Bubblegum. In three brief, focused tracks, the band demonstrates that they are indeed a perfect example of the flip side of the modern indie music scene. The songs on this EP illustrate the trio's collaborative potential as an honest evolution in music with roots in post-punk and 80's underground and alternative. Crave For Gone clearly defines a genre for the band as what they term "Post-Peak" music (an optimistic reference to life, invention and creativity in a post peak oil production world).
WHAT'S GOING ON NOW?
Bullets&Bubblegum is already working on the band's next EP. The EP format allows Bullets&Bubblegum to funnel its creativity into swift, focused bursts, permitting the band to pursue its penchant for reinventing itself. Bullets&Bubblegum is currently promoting Crave For Gone through college radio airplay and independent review sources.
COOL WEB SITE
http://www.scottradke.com
WHAT'S COMING UP?
Bullets&Bubblegum will continue developing their studio voice through EP releases while promoting their music to ears outside the United States. They plan to someday add another musician (or two) and continue creating music in their DIY manner!
contact: Victor Sabula, Bullets&Bubblegum
07/11/05 04:42:03
Abstract Reality Interview
CATEGORY: interview
ABOUT THE BAND
( comments)
I (mgc3003) was a boy scout years ago. There was a "bad kid" in the troop, and that kid tossed an aerosol can into the campFIRE as a joke. It's a MIRACLE that myself and the other kids were not injured by the EXPLOSION. The kid with the can approached me later that night and said, "We should start a band! We could do horrible things together." That was Hempmaster J, my right hand man to this day 20 years later.
I (mgc3003) rock the vocals and production on this project. Hempmaster J provides guitar & bodyguard services. A Scottish girl named "Kaye" records her vocals in Scotland and sends them to us over the internet. She stays as far away from us as possible after nearly being disowned by her family after they discovered her participation in our project!
We're all just opposites seeking balance in this world. I hate drugs. Hemp J wishes drugs were freely provided to children. Kaye disapproves of both of us. Hemp J shaves the right half of his body; I shave my left. Kaye says girls in Scotland don't shave. Our music is the best we can do to sort these things out!
ABOUT THE ALBUM
This album plays like a DJ mix. Every song blends into the next, and it bounces enough that it could ride in the background at a nice party. Lyrically the album ranges from being poetic to amusing and even political at times. Much of the CD was recorded during this new US invasion of Iraq, so that definitely influenced the album. Does it date the album? Perhaps, but on the other hand it looks like this "war" is never going to end...
WHAT'S GOING ON
The Abstract Reality crew has reunited in Dallas, TX. We're here permanently now, so we'll be playing live at parties and clubs to promote this album for the rest of the year and beyond. Our shows can be pretty loud, so we are having special A-Reality earplugs made to hand out to people who want to protect their hearing. These are special earplugs that you can actually eat like candy after use. Some people are naturally skeptical, but Hempmaster J will collect the uneaten earplugs after each show. (He loves to eat.)
FAVORITE URL
http://www.smashingpress.com/bbs
NOW WHAT?
We're trying to get the music out to the kids as quickly as possible. Radio stations aren't cooperating, so twice a week we hit the streets right around when school lets out. We take a stack of promo CDs and a few packages of store-brand hotdogs. As we drive by kids walking home from school, I toss CDs at them and Hempmaster J hits them with a hotdog. I disapprove of this vehemantly (as a vegetarian), but this gives kids something to eat on their way home to listen to the CD. This is the future of music distribution!
contact: MGC3003 from ABSTRACT REALITY
07/18/05 18:28:02
Showroom
CATEGORY: interview
We started in the Fall of 2001 under the name Kemp's Nine Days but decided that the name sucked. �We thought about calling ourselves Showroom Stephen, but realized that most people would think that Ben, our singer, was Stephen and the rest of us were the backing band. �So we dropped the Stephen and went with Showroom.
( comments)
The band consists of Ben Hutchinson, Tyler Dokis, Tristan Samuk, and myself, Rory Lindsay. �We didn't play a gig for over a year. �We had a good long set by the time we actually performed. �Most of those songs aren't played anymore, but you can hear three of them on our demo disc, which is currently circulating in various Toronto basements.
Since our early days, we've played a lot around Toronto. �We've also played in other Canadian cities. �At one show in Regina, fire poured from Tristan's eyes, blinding him.
TELL US ABOUT THE ALBUM
When we put this album together, we realized that we were putting an album together. �Later, there was no mistaking it: we had an album on our hands. �It took two months to digest the fact that we were recording an album. �Then, a CD was on the horizon.
People want The World is Too Much With Us for 100 reasons. �The main reason is that it took so long for us, as performers, to realize that we had written, recorded, mixed, mastered, and duplicated an album. �At one point Ben turned to me and said, "this is sounding really good," to which I replied, "back off, man."
The craziest thing that happened during our recording sessions was when we realized that we had accidentally recorded a song in reverse. �It sounded normal for the first few hours, but after numerous listens on my iPod Shuffle, I realized that it was sounding off. �We used the "invert selection" option and the problem was solved. �We also did some word processing around that time.
WHAT'S GOING ON?
Four record labels have contacted us in the past year and a bit. �Consequently we've given up our day jobs and academic pursuits and are just playing shows under various secret names. �Our website is misleading. �We actually play five nights a week, each night playing some new material and some old stuff. �Once a song is in good shape, we play it at a "Showroom" gig.
FAVORITE URL
http://www.auralgasms.com
WHAT'S GOING ON FROM HERE?
We plan on heading up north, and also heading south. �That's where the fans are. Our upcoming tour is called "1000 Supplications." �Keep checking http://www.showroommusic.com for details.
07/18/05 23:47:43
Rotcod Zzaj Interview
CATEGORY: interview
Zzaj Productions records music of interest to those with "difficult listening" skills. In addition to (over) 70 tapes released during the late '80's, Zzaj now has nearly 30 CD's (of his material and other notable artists) available at his website!
( comments)
Zzaj believes that music (& HOMEMADE music, in particulate) is a force (for good) that can not be stopped! Artists everywhere now have the opportunity to communicate/collaborate on a scale never before imagined! "Gourd" be with 'em if they pass this opportunity up!
Probably the most distinctive thing about Zzaj Musique is the aspect of "long distance" collaboration... I have recorded with many artists around the world that I never have met (&, unfortunately, probably never will). I started using the "network" in it's infancy (particularly the WWW & e-mail) to help me stay in contact with artists I admired & wanted to collaborate with!
What is the "state of ZzajMusique" these days?
Ever expanding... ever changing! I'm constantly in search of "new directions", & have been (really) lucky enough to find other musicians who have helped me realize that dream! Of course, there have been periods that felt "just the same", but (over these many years - about 12 now) I've been able to find ways to move away from that. My most recent collaborations with Ernesto Diaz-Infante (& his playing partner Patrick Harman) are probably the best example of that in action! Even within the context of those recordings (there are actually 6 Zzaj/Ernesto CD releases now, more on the way), we have managed to experiment with different instrumentations (I'm particularly fond of strings right now, & orchestral flavorings). I also find my music moving towards more "concentrated" (& often "slower") compositional styles, with a focus (once again) on how to weave spoken-word into improvisation.
How important is "press & radio" to you as an artist?
Since most of my music is in an experimental vein, I don't really expect to get a lot of press... airplay is probably most important to me (for all of our CD's, not just my own material), because it is "the people" I want to hear my music. Not to make them "fall in love" with it... just to HEAR it... to evaluate it for themselves... to drop me an e-mail & say "this is great", or "this is the worst thing I've ever heard". THAT kind of press (the HOMEMADE kind) is the most valuable to me! So many 'zines I've sent CD's out to give it a "that's great" or "that sucks" kind of one-to-two liner... (with the notable exception of GAJOOB and SPLENDID e-zine). There is NOTHING that ticks me off more (I don't care if it's a "negative" review)... if an artist takes the time to send a package, it must be more than that! That's another reason I think airplay is more important... in the end-run, it is the PEOPLE I wish to share my music with - & I believe when they HEAR it, they form their own impressions (pro OR con) without needing a reviewer to "steer" them!
Is the ".mp3 war" of any great importance?
Not in particulate! The "big record" companies will find some way to change the format. What is MOST important is the creative ways that the NETWORK (the WWW, print 'zines, Internet Radio) can be used (by the PEOPLE, & NOT the "company stores") to beat the machine. Tape has always been one way around their machinations... CD's & .mp3 files will be another way. The actual COMMUNICATION amongst us "regular folks" is the REAL threat to those who would jam tunza' crud down our ears! USE the medium(s) (like HOMEMADE music, IMPROVIJAZZATION NATION, AUTOREVERSE, Internet Radio shows) to the MAX, & just "talk" with each other... the less they can sell, the more the people will prevail!
07/18/05 23:51:07
Jim Shelley Interview
CATEGORY: interview
How did you get started home recording?
( comments)
It's kind of cloudy now when I think back on how I got started in home recording. I know that I loved music since I was a little teeny kid. My parents bought me a cheesy Sears acoustic guitar and I've been trying to learn how to play it ever since. Anyway...I've always loved listening to HOW
people put records together, especially earlier bands like the Beatles who did so much with so little in the way of equipment.
When I discovered that there were four track cassette decks on the market, I drove up to Washington Music in Maryland and bought a Tascam Portastudio. My credit card was overcharged but I had enough money in my checking account to just cover it. I think I lived on a half loaf of bread and water for a month until my next check. But when I got home! Oh MAN! I wrote 15-20 songs in a very short time (many of which appeared on "12 Songs") and basically learned how to use the portastudio while writing and recording the new songs. I was very strictly into a sort of classic pop song verse chorus verse chorus bridge etc. etc. thing but I still like most of the songs I wrote then.
Give us a brief rundown of your releases.
I've put out way too many albums to talk about in any detail, but I'll give a brief rundown and you can edit as you see fit...
12/74 - NOIZ: A collection I did at a very tender age. Crazed guitar noise, screaming and pots and pans banging along with weird backward sounds which I got by turning the tape inside out or something. (This was when i had a reel to reel.) Why was I doing this sort of thing as a child? No idea.
12/79 - 12 Songs. See above. A boy in love with pop music.
07/87 - What I Did On My Summer Vacation. A three hour collection of various crap I'd done over the last 13 years.
Okay...then in 1988, I fell in love with Sonic Youth and Live Skull and early Pixies and was already listening to Husker Du and various other earlier CA bands like Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, etc. and I wrote a song called "The Night John Lennon Died." This is the single most important thing I've ever done because it defined my musical direction. The next summer I put together BLOOM OR DIE, my first REAL album, and sent it to Jim Santo at ALTERNATIVE PRESS and HE REVIEWED IT! AND HE LIKED IT! If that had not happened, I doubt that I would've put out another tape. There are over 600 copies of BLOOM in circulation.
That�s amazing for a DiY release! Did you get 600 responses from the Jim Santo review alone?
I didn't get 600 responses from Santo's review...actually at best I got a dozen inquiries specifically related to that particular column. In fact, I got many many more responses from an extremely negative review (which I never saw, by the way) in MAXIMUM ROCK AND ROLL! And ironically, the inquiries I got were almost uniformly sympathetic. I've maintained correspondence with a couple of those people to this very day.
Anyway there are over 600 copies of the tape in circulation because about 400 people have bought it over the years and I've given away tons of them. Additionally, there are a lot of dubs made of my stuff, which I encourage, of course.
How do you feel about AP dropping Jim Santo�s Demorandum column?
I think that was inevitable. AP has gotten awfully big; perhaps they felt that Jim's column just didn't appeal to that many readers. And, really, it seemed kind of out of place in AP anymore anyway, didn't it? I don't know the real reasons, actually, and never really asked Jim about it. I thought it was the liveliest column by far in the magazine. I know he's putting together something for AP's net zine but I don't know when that's going to come together. Anyway, the loss of "Demorandum," I thought, was a major blow. It pretty much leaves GAJOOB all alone in the spotlight.
What comes after Bloom or Die?
In 1991, I put out FOR THE GOOD OF THE CAUSE, a collection of stuff I'd done in 1990 plus some radical deconstructions of some ancient folk songs from '91. I sent this one to AP also, and Santo gave it a really great review. I got several inquiries from AP readers after that and some of them became 'long-time' listeners.
I put out three albums in '92...DON'T STOP THE SCREAM, 8 FROM THE ATTIC and THE HAUNTED LIFE. SCREAM got really nice reviews from AP and a couple of smaller 'zines. HAUNTED LIFE is one of my lowest sellers but I think it is by far one of my best...it is basically the sound of a man having a nervous breakdown. But I generally do some of my best work when I'm hovering on the edge of insanity.
�93...depression yielded one of my better selling tapes, WEE JIM'S BLACKEYE. I still do a lot of songs from that one live...not that I play live much. Also in '93 I came up with the idea of putting out occasional compilations of old unreleased stuff under the catch-all title BIG BUSINESS MONKEY. This one is still the most popular of the three.
In '94, as I was assembling a group of musicians for what became a really nice but short-lived (one year) band, I decided to put out a best-of and slammed together 90 minutes of new and old stuff and called it IN MY ROOM - THE BEST OF BOOK OF KILLS. It has become a very popular tape (in relative terms, of course) and Jim Santo wrote "Along with FM Cornog, Jim Shelley belongs in the lo-fi pantheon" about it and me...and I got a lot of inquiries but not many orders. Also '94: SONGS FOR A GONE WORLD. Really weird stuff kinda influenced by Chrome. DETRITUS...band versions of new and old material...sold for $2...sold like hot cakes locally until the master tape fucked up...now it's a pseudo collector's item. I don't even have one!
BIG BUSINESS MONKEY #2 in '95 along with SAINT JUDAS. By this time I'd decided to send tapes to you and IMPROVIJAZZATION NATION and God bless you both, you both gave me very nice reviews. AP said it was my best album ever, but I don't know... Shortly after that I put out my first ever 7" which sold 26 copies. Ouch. But the local college radio station played the hell out of it for about a month.
BBM #3 came out in June of this year. I just released a 90 minute tape of new material SPLENDID TRIGGER which is a sort of story in musical form (NOT a rock opera)...a long time listener said it makes him feel "cold and empty." I don't know...it's weird. I worked with others on the tape...it's something I'm proud of but very unsure of too.
Gosh...I have gone on, haven't I?
Tell us a little more about Spendid Trigger. How is this a departure from your pervious material?
SPLENDID TRIGGER is a tape I finished in August right before I had to go back to teaching school. It's a bit of a departure, I suppose, for one because it's like a 90 minute 29 song musical story. NOT a rock opera, God forbid. More along the lines of Husker Du's ZEN ARCADE, but a little more focused. Too, it's a little more subdued than a lot of my stuff. My last live band was so loud and raucous that I guess this tape's a bit of a shock to some listeners. It hasn't sold very well. Eleven copies so far. You don't get rich doing this you know. I guess it's also different in that I play a lot more keyboard on this one. Bought a relatively cheap Casio (is that redundant?) and used it a lot. I'm very proud of the lyrics on this album. I did have help this time from various people.
You covered several songs by hometaper Scott Johnson. How did this come about?
I used the Scott Johnson songs because I really like Scott's music and don't feel (at least according to what he used to write me) that he gets any recognition at all. Not that I get any either (what hometaper does?), but I like his music--it's so full of fragile emotions.
How has the response been?
Unfortunately, as I told you before, this latest tape has turned out to be the biggest dud I've ever put out...I've only sold 12 copies! That compares with several hundred copies of some of my other
tapes. Nobody seems to like it. That really sucks considering how much time I put into it, but...really...who does this to sell tapes? Then again, it just came out, so who knows.
I think people have come to expect a certain sound from me and I just refuse to pigeon hole myself. I had similar dismal results when I put out "Song for a Gone World" which was sort of a semi-noise collage thing. That came out in '92 or '93 and I've sold fewer than 20 copies of that one since.
I've always wondered what other hometapers feelings were about sales. What sort of sales figures do others report? Really, when I add up the cost of buying a recorder, instruments, mics, tapes, paper, etc. I have lost several thousand dollars making music...a fact I've scrupulously hidden from my wife. You have to ask yourself how pathetic your desire to create really is, you know? I don't mean to sound so cynical but it's a tough thing to swallow. It seems invariably to come back to the fact that hometapers are perceived to be "amateurs" or somehow "deficient" and therefore their music isn't worth actually purchasing. I know we're not "supposed" to worry about that but who doesn't really?
It�s ironic that at a time where interest in hometaping and lo-fi recording (as opposed to lo-fi recordingS, perhaps) is at an alltime high and seemingly growing all the time, longtime hometapers still can�t make any inroads in getting their music heard. Do you think it�s the destiny of hometapers to labor in obscurity?
I think most hometapers will labor in obscurity for several reasons. One, and I hope no one's offended by this because I'm including myself, I think there's probably something wrong with people who sit around in their basement or bedroom or garage and record albums on cassette tape. Who the hell is really gonna care other than a small band of listeners, if that? So I don't think most hometapers could cope with the demands of a musical career.
Secondly, most hometapers' music just isn't ever gonna appeal to very many people. Whatever else you might say about them, you must grant that a number of hometapers are extraordinarily strange and adventuresome and interesting. Of course, many more of them are just plain lame, but so are most professional musicians. But the average music consumer doesn't want strange music that they can't latch onto right away. Good hometapers demand an awful lot from the listener. 'Course, I guess most truly worthwhile musicians do.
Thirdly, I know some hometapers are happy right where they are. They don't wanna be rich and famous. I admire the hell out of that attitude. But to be truthful, I'd like to be able to make a living from my music. And finally, I don't think most hometapers understand what they need to do to achieve recognition. Or perhaps they do and just aren't willing to expend energy in that direction. If you want people to hear your music, you have to take it to them. You have to be willing to starve for a while. You have to be willing to sleep on cold hard floors in dirty apartments as you travel up and down and back and forth across the nation. You have to be willing to get ripped off by the unscrupulous owners of the various dives you're gonna play. You have to be able to take an occasional stoney silent audience somewhere along the line. You must be able to listen to record executives tell you your music sucks and believe they're wrong. And when it all seems as though you're never gonna be a success and you hear the stability of a 9 to 5 calling, you have to believe that you WILL make it and the 9 to 5 can suck eggs. You can never give up!
Is being �unsure� of a release a common feeling immediately after putting something out for consumption?
As far as being unsure of one's self, sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. It was excruciating to send BLOOM OR DIE off to AP and MRR. I mean, some local people really liked the tape, but I didn't know if that was because it was sort of a novelty for their friend to have put out a tape or what. Fortunately I didn't see the MRR review. I might've stopped recording! But usually after I record an album, I'm so excited over the act of creation that I can't wait for people to hear it.
It's very hard for me to be objective about my own music especially new stuff.
One thing I find interesting about your networking activities is your newsletter. How did you come about doing this? How many people on your mailing list? Have there been any interesting results from publishing it?
As far as the newsletter goes, I realized when some people from out of state started writing me that if I wanted to maintain contact with them (i.e. sell them more tapes) I'd have to come up with a newsletter thing. Which is what I did. I now send one out about 3 times a year. I don't know if it's worth doing. I send out about 130 newsletters at a time and that's over $40 in costs. Does it pay for itself? It's hard to say...it keeps me in the listener's mind I guess, but if you sell tapes for $3-4 a piece it'll take a long time to recoup the costs just of the newsletters because hometapers
don't sell a lot of tapes no matter what they try.
That's why I want to be on a record label...it's so frustrating to have written so many songs (over 200) and put out so many tapes (over 17...I didn't list them all, believe it or not) but I can't seem to make myself send off a tape. The one time I did, Trent Reznor's old label TVT sent an inquiry. I sent him three tapes and never heard anything back. Then about a year later, they sent another inquiry and I told them to fuck themselves. Afterwards, I sent tapes to some real small labels and none of them wrote back.
It's very strange because I've had such nice reviews from the 'zines I've sent tapes too and when I play live the shows border on rabid response, but it's like somehow I suck...I don't know...I can't stop. Sorry to ramble so much...
Have you tried using any resources on the internet to let people know about your stuff?
I would love to use internet resources but I don't know how. I love computers and the 'net, but I'm a bozo when it comes to using this stuff. A guy I knew who goes to James Madison University tried to set up a Book of Kills web page but he just didn't have the time to do it. I was really
flattered to hear he'd tried, though. I thought it was a real honor.
I think you've mentioned this before somewhere, but are any of your students familiar with your hometaping? What do they think of your stuff?
I teach English and Creative Writing. It's often fun and usually rewarding, but there's an awful lot of ignorance and pettiness and small-mindedness involved. And while i suspect that goes double for the music world, I wish I could make a living in music. But like I wrote in a song a long time ago, "Wishing never made a single dream come true..."
My students are very aware that I play in a band and put out tapes. There've been some great shows in the last 5-6 years in which students and former students have composed a large part of pretty out of control audience. I'm not really sure exactly who buys my tapes locally but they sell fairly consistently. I've noticed though that sales slow down noticeably if I haven't played live in a few months. Promoting your music with a band remains the single best means of self-promotion...no getting around it. As far as what they think of my stuff...I guess they're pretty into it for the most part. Hell...I don't know...maybe they're just humoring me.
Do you have any ideas on your next release?
I'm at a real crisis point in terms of my next release. I've started another band and we're oriented towards the old Book of Kills sound...I don't know what that is...sort of folk and punk and Beatles all tossed together but I'm weary of putting out tapes of fairly straightforward rock tunes. I mean
I love great pop music...it's the best, but I just want to do something else. I really love the experimental stuff going on in electronic music...I can't get enough of the various permutations of that sort of music...it's heading into a really interesting mix of metal, jazz, techno, punk...you name it and I'd like to try my hand at it. So I've been mulling over buying a decent synthesizer and seeing what I can do. The one thing about most electronic music is very very few people seem to be able to put any emotion into it and that's what I'd like to try to do.
Do you come upon ideas for tapes sort of by sudden inspiration, or do they perhaps gel into a framework as you are working on songs or working with other people?
Songs come two ways for me...all of a sudden or I labor over them for hours at a time. Particularly the words. The more songs you write the harder it is to come up with a new way to say something. I guess that's why a good portion of my songs feature lyrics that are basically just a jumble of
vaguely related images. I know some people say the songs that come to you out of the blue are the best ones, but I don't necessarily find that to be true. I have a feeling many of the very greatest pop songs probably were the result of a lot of sweat and tears. Sometimes when I have to have a song to feel out an album, I'll just pick a song by some other artist and sort of work a variation on it and occasionally I get some pretty cool songs that way.
Some differences, pros and cons on recording your last project with other musicians as opposed to doing it solo?
I like to record with other people but they rarely seem to understand where I'm coming from...that is what I want them to play. But I give people a lot of leeway to do what they want. I always try to play with people who are much better musicians than I am...they push you to try new things and
they really do open your eyes to different possibilities. Still...it can be a pain.
How do your music activities affect your home life and vice versa?
Somebody once said that the great enemy of art is the family and that's true. So you have to have an understanding family. Still, if I didn't have a family I'd probably long ago headed off to New York or D.C. or somewhere. You make your choices and then you live with the responsibilities. I've put out 17 tapes in the last 7 years but if I'd lived alone I would've probably doubled that number. But I love my family. Hell...I don't know. Maybe without them I'd have blown my head off a long time ago.
Briefly describe your recording setup and how it's evolved over the years.
I've never been able to put much money into my recording gear. I still use a $100 acoustic guitar I bought years and years ago. And I have a cheap Japanese Telecaster that's falling apart. For keyboards I use a crappy little Casio and I mix through an old Yamaha powered mixer that constantly malfunctions. What a load of junk it all is. I made my first tapes on a Tascam Portastudio, then later picked up a TOA 8 track for really cheap. I finally saved up enough this summer to buy a Tascam 8 track. It's really nice. But I'm still getting used to it. I did SPLENDID TRIGGER on it but, as you know, I'm not at all pleased with the mix. Most of my songs are guitar based. I just record direct into the tape player. I know the experts say not to but it works for me...gives your music a real claustrophobic feel which I like.
Are looking at any new equipment with lust in your heart?
I'm lusting after a new amp, but it's gonna have to be a choice between the amp or the synth. I'd also like to get a cd-r. It's all up in the air right now.
Do you have any favorite hometapers?
My favorite hometapers are local people. I think you have to throw your support first and foremost to those artists who live in your city or town or where ever. Around here, I really like Robert St. Ours, who I believe is an undiscovered near-genius; Bruce Benedict, a nice folk singer; the now-defunct Necromantics; Blistre (now known as Blisstrigger) which is a really cool Christian noise band; and nationally F.M. Cornog. But F.M.'s put out a cd or two and has gotten some national press, so I don't know if he "counts" anymore. Jim Santo's band, Jennifer Convertible, is pretty cool too, but they're on the verge of getting signed I think, so maybe they don't count either. Oh...I really like Heather Perkins and Bat Lenny. And then there's Daniel Johnston. He may have been signed by a record company but he'll always be one of the gods of hometaping...he's so brilliant.
07/18/05 23:55:25
Frankie Big Face Interview
CATEGORY: interview
FRANKIE: Hey Everybody! I'm very excited about this opportunity and super-flattered that blindmime chose me to be on the cover of his fledgling mag. There's a ton of talent here (and over on somesongs) and I can think of a dozen artists worthy of being interviewed for this project. So please me ask some questions!
( comments)
MC Poncho: So Frankie, if you are what you beat, are you composed of baby seals or wives? Or am I reading this wrong?
roymond: Is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
FRANKIE: I want to be thorough, so I will answer all questions, even the stupid ones. Baby seals and yes.
prayformojo: Did you just say "super-flattered"? Are you now a 14 year old girl? The people want to know.
FRANKIE: Yes and yes. Through the miracle of hormone treatments and reverse aging therapy, I am now a 14-year-girl. Thanks for asking.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: Do you still wear extra-queen pantyhose?
Yook: Have you been working on your particular style for a long time? Or is it what comes out when you do music, naturally?
FRANKIE: Before SongFight, I hadn't been writing much pop music. About twelve years ago, I recorded an album with a guitarist I grew up with (George Barron, who plays on several tracks from "smile if you absolutely have to") under the band name Red Rain. It was kind of prog rock jazz pop with really (laughably) serious lyrics. After that, I shifted my focus to my professional career as a teacher and started writing a lot of orchestral music, especially stuff geared to school-aged kids. Later, when working on my master's degree, I wrote piano etudes and string quartets. What was your question again? Oh yeah, so anyway, at the time I was introduced to Songfight (by John of the John Benjamin Band), I was obsessed with the pop music of Fountains of Wayne and Elliott Smith and made a concerted effort to write three-minute pop songs and here I am three years later pretty much doing the same thing.
Yook: - Do you get tired of the comparisons to Bowie, which tend to be based solely on some tonal similarities?
FRANKIE: Kind of. They're almost always complimentary comparisons, so it would be stupid to get upset about it, but I always find comments about my songwriting to be more interesting and/or useful. I never take the Bowie comparisons as insults and since the similarity is unintentional, I don't go out of my way to not sound like him.
Yook: What have you been up to lately, musically? Any major projects you wish to reveal?
FRANKIE: Yeah, there's been kind of a dirth of Big Face lately, huh? Even though I haven't been posting songs to Songfight, I have been working on the titles that come out. I guess I just can't keep up with the efficiency of the new fightmaster! I have four or five that are in various states of being finished, but not recorded. I also have several non-songfight songs which are ready to go. My plan is to record an album with a mix of newly arranged and recorded Songfight songs and several brand new tracks sometime in the spring.
YOOK: Isn't Yook the bestest guy ever?
FRANKIE: He's definitely in the top ten.
YOOK: Frankie Big Face the band is pretty much over. After Ben the guitarist left, we held auditions for a while and then Monty (aka Brick Pig) moved to NYC and I was left with only Paul (the drummer). Paul's been playing with another band (Fat Handsome) and going to school, so I decided it was time to get back to basics and spend less time trying to put that project together and more time writing songs. I may get back to playing some live acoustic gigs, which I have enjoyed in the past, but the future of live playing for me is murky. It's not a very high priority.
YOOK: Do you enjoy the process of creating music more or less when you are in a full band environment, or going solo?
FRANKIE: I always write the songs by myself and usually present them to the band as finished products. I'm usually not specific about exactly what each guy plays within the framework of the song, but for the most part, the songs are finished before anyone plays a note. The exception is working with a drummer. Paul always has several suggestions for making stuff sound cool and I am usually pretty receptive to his ideas. But the creative aspect of rehearsing Frankie Big Face the band was in the arrangements, not in the songwriting.
YOOK: Does this dress make me look fat?
FRANKIE: I'm sorry, yes.
JACK SHITE: Why do you have such a Big Face?
FRANKIE: I actually don't! In fact, I have a freakishly small head, so I probably have a smaller than usual face.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: How does being a music teacher affect your songwriting process? Do you ever deconstruct your own music for the class, or even create music with a class-based deconstruction in mind? Alternately, do you ever find yourself tempted to "practice what you preach" when you compose a song even if it's anathema to what would be best for it?
FRANKIE: For those who don't know, my primary job is teaching orchestra and music theory to high school and middle school students in a suburban public school. I would say teaching has had a tremendous effect on my growth as a musician, but probably not much of an effect on my songwriting process. I have used examples of my own music in class, but I've never written anything specifically to emphasize a point. I would never make a poor choice during the songwriting process to accommodate some principle I "preach". It's more likely I would re-examine why I teach that concept in the first place.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: When you write a song, do you stick to a specific formula (e.g. write lyrics, then chord progression, then work out the instrumental arrangement), and if so, what is it?
FRANKIE: I don't have a formula and if I find myself repeating an old idea, I usually trash the song and start over. Most of the time, I am struck by a lyrical/melodic idea (usually in the shower--heh!) and I sing it over and over until I can put it on a microcassette recorder. Later on, I'll listen to it and decide whether it's worth working on and if it is, I'll sit down and start to work it out on piano or guitar. I do get melodic ideas without words a lot, but those ideas usually don't go anywhere. I almost never get lyrical ideas without music and I find writing music for pre-written lyrics to be rather tedious. So, if a song is going to survive and actually make it to tape, it usually is partially formed in my brain as a melodic w/words idea first. I usually have some inkling of the instrumentation and the arrangement at that first moment of inspiration as well and many of my microcasette ideas feature me singing all the instrumental parts as well. They're pretty hysterical.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: One of the things I've noticed is that although music theory is great at explaining why something sounds good, it's absolutely horrible for creating new music - you can always tell if music is written by a theoretician, because it always sounds extremely planned and like it could have just been generated by a computer. How much pure music theory goes into generating your music? Obviously your music isn't purely theory-generated (it actually has soul), but do you try to optimize your sound based on the predictions made by theory, or does a solid knowledge of theory otherwise affect the chords and song structure you work with?
FRANKIE: I think the last part of your question most directly relates to my writing. I use my knowledge of music theory to get me out of tough situations when writing, but I never use it as a starting point. For example, in terms of structure, if I have a bridge that's in a different key as the chorus, it usually doesn't take me a very long time to come up with a solution to connect the two parts in a way that sounds smooth. Or, if I have a verse in three-four and a chorus in four-four (like "Scared to Death"), I can usually find a transition between the two sections that works with a limited amount of difficulty. I'm happy to have a theoretical background and I've never seen it as a hindrance, but some of the best players I know are "untrained" musicians and some of the best songwriters I know have no formal training. If someone is interested in writing pop music, I would tell them to skip music school and just study the Beatles catalog. Everything you need to know is right there.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: Do you see music as a means of carrying lyrics, lyrics as a means of adding tangible expression music, or something else entirely?
FRANKIE: I don't separate music and lyrics that way. I views songs as entities unto themselves. I think it's great if lyrics can stand alone as poetry, but there are plenty of great songs that don't "read" well. There are also plenty of poems that would lose something if set to music. Although I understand the appeal of instrumental music, it's not a genre I find very interesting (unless I'm hearing it live). In my opinion, none of the separate components of a song, no matter how artfully done, can achieve the same result as a well-written song. I truly believe it is the highest form of art.
HOBLIT: Does your mother know you are gay? So what's it like living in Bowie's shadow? kidding kidding. I would like to ask a personal question though not related to music really: What kind of women do you like? Types of women? Do you like to meet ladies who are musicians or into music or do you like teachers. I want to get to know frankie a little better. Tell us about your adventures with your social life involving the opposite sex. (or the same sex if thats what you're into...not that there is anything wrong with that)
FRANKIE: Ha ha ha. Are you serious? Since you are Hoblit, I will assume yes and say only that I am seriously involved with a woman who is not a teacher nor a musician and I am very happy.
HOBLIT: yes, I was serious...when I got down to the actual question. And it's good to hear. Good luck to you two in the future... I really had gotten to think about that. See, I have a thing for teachers (and waitresses) and I had been curious if you were living out my dream. Seriously, good for you my man. (even if she isn't a teacher)
JACK SHITE: is there any one particular band, artist, song that inspired you to want to become a musician? that you heard before you could play music and it made you want to learn how to play an instrument or write a song.
FRANKIE: My first favorite band was the Beatles and I still love them. My father is primarily responsible for introducing me to them and Bob Dylan (who I did not like as a kid, but love now), as well as the Rolling Stones, Elvis Presley and just about anyone else who recorded during the 60s and 70s. In high school, I was really inspired by Rush, Yes, Jethro Tull, etc. and practiced my ass off trying to learn the bass lines. More recently, the music of Elliott Smith, Ron Sexsmith and Fountains of Wayne has inspired me to write pop songs.
JACK SHITE: is there any instrument that you can't play now that you would like to learn how to play?
FRANKIE: I wish I could play drums well. I practiced on a drum kit for two summers during high school and got pretty good at it, but I would have to start over now. That would be it--the drums.
JACK SHITE: what comes first for you in song development, the lyrics or the music/arrangement?
FRANKIE: I believed I answered that above. See Yook's questions, I think. But it's simultaneous is the short answer.
JACK SHITE: how do you write about personal experiences in your music without sounding contrite or cheesy?
FRANKIE: I have a rhyming dictionary. It sounds stupid, but I'm actually not kidding. Once I've stopped generating ideas from my limited brain power, I open up this dictionary and start playing with words I hadn't considered. A lot of times, one word will lead me down a path I didn't even know existed. But really, the Songfight titles themselves have a lot to do with putting a "fresh spin" on old topics. I try to take the title and relate it to a personal experience or make up an experience and before you know it, I have an "original" take on a love song. "Down to the Atom" is a good example. At the time, I was obsessed with writing love songs and that title seemed so daunting. But it really inspired me to think about the topic in a new and (I hope) interesting way. Same with "Acid Mouth." The easy approach with that title would have been to write something really rocking and kind of caustic. I decided to take the opposite approach and I think it's effective because it's so unexpected to hear the harsh words of the title in a song that's so full of remorse.
JACK SHITE: this is a pretty cool thing blind mime's doing. and hopefully mr. big face won't turn into mr. big head after being the first cover boy....
FRANKIE: Yeah, it feels a little silly to answer these questions like this. I really appreciate the opportunity but I don't know quite how to act. I'll try to keep my ego under control.
15-16 PUZZLE: What does indie music mean to you? Do you think that you make indie music?
FRANKIE: I guess so. I mean, I make my music independent of anybody else's help or influence or money, so I guess I'm indie in that sense. But do I sound like Pavement? No. Beyond that, I've never given much thought to what the term "indie music" means.
15-16 PUZZLE: Do you think that living in Lancaster PA has any impact on the number of people who get to hear your music? Do you care?
FRANKIE: If I was trying to make a living doing this and if a large part of that living depended on live performance, I would say yes. But the fact is that more people outside of Lancaster know my music than know it here. When I get a random e-mail from someone telling me they like my music, it's never from someone up the street. It's usually from someone in Kansas or British Columbia or England. And I think that's way cooler than playing the local bar. So, no, I don't really think my location has had much of an impact and I don't really care.
15-16 PUZZLE: How do you get to date hot Asian chicks, what with you being a big ol' dork and all?
FRANKIE: Ha ha. I don't know. Ask your sister.
LADY PFM: yay, this is actually pretty damn interesting!
MC FRONTALOT: Hey the mag looks cool, but you have totally ruined that nice picture of Frankie with your overzealous typographic treatment. there is a reason why Elle and Vanity Fair print the teaser headlines for the articles in small type around the edges of the cover; it is not because they are mainstreammajorlabelsellouts, it is because their cover subjects are ATTRACTIVE and blotting them out with big yellow letters would negatively impact sales!! I am not saying Frankie is the most beautiful of all possible cover models (that would have to be erik) [MARJORIE: DUN DUN DUHHHHHHHHNNNNNNN ] but he is a handsome gent and deserves better. Plus I need to see what he is doing to that giraffe (orally!)!! Also I have an interview question for frank: Can I sleep on your floor?
YOOK: Go for John's couch instead. Seriously.
HOBLIT: JB's floor isn't too bad either.
MC FRONTALOT: oops by orally I meant digitally (with fingers) and does he even have a left arm? help me out here people.
FRANKIE: But of course! And yeah, I agree about the photo, but I thought I'd let my publicist handle it.
BLINDMIME: Thanks for the feedback. Is this better?
JOHNNY CASHPOINT: Personally from a design point of view I preferred the impact of the first cover, but perhaps a horizontal flick on the photograph to take Frankie's oral action away from the text? (i'm doing this from memory, mind)
MC FRONTALOT: Hell of better. You guys are FULL SERVICE!
BLUE: can i sleep with front.. on your floor? also, can you show me some chords?
BLINDMIME: This question is for anyone/everyone besides Frank... What is your favorite Frankie Big Face song?
JEFF: Air Traffic.
FRANKIE: really? that's quite a surprise.
YOOK: #1 - Coming Dear, #2 - Birds of Our Own, #3 - Scared to Death. Those are not just my three favorite Frankie songs, each of those is on my list of "Songs I Need To Have On My Playlist To Be Happy". And each is, in my humble opinion, quite beautiful. But don't tell Frankie I said that.
SPUD: Been To China ("All New" Live Version).
JOHN M: Funny Enough For You, Floating Bridge, and Red Robot.
Plagioclase: tracks for future practice.
JON ERIC: Scared to Death.
MO: you talked about this a little bit earlier with the rhyming dictionary and answering fluffy's question about using theory, but what kinds of things you do you do to keep your songs sounding fresh? i mean this in the writing process (do you force yourself to experiment with different instruments or sounds, etc.) as well as a performance question, since sometimes you play a song enough times and it just gets stale. also, are you gonna eat that?
FRANKIE: I like this question because it implies that my songs are still sounding fresh! I would say I experiment less with sounds or instruments than I do with styles. I'm pretty much a guitar, bass, drums kind of guy (although the piano has become kind of prominent lately) and even though I can play other instruments, I rarely do. I often think that too many sounds detract from the song itself. So, especially if it's a complicated song harmonically or structure-wise, I'll keep the instrumentation simple. If the song is kind of plain, that's when I'll start looking for some color.
But I think style is where I probably experiment the most. A lot of people have told me that they like how every song on "smile if you absolutely have to" has a different feel or style, but they all still sound like FBF. I think that's a great compliment as it was a conscious decision. When I got pretty far into that process--like say eight or nine songs were finished--I really started thinking about what types of songs would compliment what I already had and made a conscious effort to write the remaining songs in styles that would balance the record.
And yes, I am going to eat that but I'm told I'm getting better at sharing food.
JEFF...: Oh oh! I got one. So Frank, as an internet-based musician, you are among very computer-friendly people. Most songfighters record with their computer. In fact, a lot of them use their computer as their primary musical instrument. You record to digital tape and get your effects from effects boxes. What are the advantages you feel you have being a hardware guy rather than a software guy?
FRANKIE: I don't think there are many advantages to be honest. Other than I already know how to turn knobs and dials and I get completely rattled when I look at this stuff on a computer screen. Although I will say this: since punch-ins and edits are more difficult with hardware than software, I am really forced to learn to play my songs at a fairly proficient rate. That may sound stupid or obvious to anyone who hasn't used a computer, but I've seen miracles of editing performed on sloppy performances (my own even!) and I think if you have enough time or expertise, you can probably make a mediocre musician sound like a pro.
I also like the process of mixing in real time. I feel like an artist when I'm mixing a song and I feel like my ears are really engaged in the entire song. I get a pretty strong sense about whether the song is the right length or needs a vocal harmony or whatever because I'm hearing it as a whole repeatedly. If I used a computer, I know I would mix sections of songs and copy and paste and save and delete and clean and nudge and all that. Which would be nice, but I'm not sure it would be as satisfying as actually mixing the old-fashioned way. So, I guess I'm into the aesthetics of hardware. But I would certainly be happy not to have to write down all my settings or cue up a tape or find the bad patch chord. If I were just starting, I'd definitely use a computer.
BLINDMIME: What's the name of the first song you wrote and what was it about?
FRANKIE: I don't know. When I was in middle school, I had a fictitious band called The Smelltones and I wrote parody songs of the current pop hits, usually about people I didn't like. Or just about nothing (think "Detergent" to Foreigner's "Urgent"). I'm sure I wrote songs in high school, but I cant remember any of them or what they were about. That's a horrible answer, but it's the truth, sadly.
BLINDMIME: Locked Box is your highest rated song on somesongs. Tell us what was the thought process behind the development of that song?
FRANKIE: Hmm....then I'd be giving away all my SECRET SONGWRITING POWER. But in the interest of journalism, I'll try to reconstruct the process of writing that song.
One day, I woke up and the first two lines were in my head, complete with melody. I thought they were good enough to build a song around, so I started toying with this idea of a woman who is torn between being comfortably alone and completely terrified about being alone, almost at the same time. I wrote some more lyrics, most of which were just okay and then started trying to develop the song structure a bit more. Once I figured out that I wanted the woman's "voice" in the song (the chorus, which I had intended to be sing by an actual woman, but you know, that would require finding a woman willing to come into my house and sing), it really started to take shape. The real coup was when I came up with the bouncy section at the end of the chorus and then the structure pretty much took care of itself. I asked my friend Monty (aka Brick Pig) for some lyrical help and he gave me a few ideas and before you know it, the song was done. I was really lucky to have access to a drummer who could make such an awesome drum part just by listening to me make noises with my mouth.
JBB: I think an equipment list might be of interest to readers. Also, a little bit about your education. Do you have a day-job? What is it? How do you think your occupation helps or hinders your songwriting?
FRANKIE: I'm not a big fan of the equipment lists, but I'll talk about my setup a little. basically, I have two Alesis ADATs, which I run through a Mackie board and mix down to an Alesis Masterlink 9600. I have all kinds of processors and stuff that I use along the way, but my two favorite pieces of equipment are my Rode NTV mic and my Joe Meek Studio Channel VC1. I have a Taylor acoustic guitar, a 1973 Rickenbacker 4001 bass, a Paul Reed Smith electric and a Yamaha P-150 electronic piano. I have other stuff too, but this is becoming a list, so I'll stop.
I went to Millersville University in Pennsylvania where I graduated with a Music Ed. degree and I have a Master's Degree in Music Theory from West Chester University. I teach Orchestra and Music Theory to high school and middle school students for a living. I don't think my job helps or hinders my songwriting too much, although having my summers free and money has allowed me to attend all the SongFight Live events, so I guess that has helped. Plus, I have a captive audience anytime I want to play Red Robot. I'm sure it has helped in other ways, but they are not coming to me at this time.
plagiocase: where were you when i was taking music in school two years ago? if my high school music teacher started playing your 'red robot' in the middle of class, i'd go nuts. literally. nuts.
BLINDMIME: Tell us a little about the people with whom you've collaborated (weblinks too if you can), including people in the Frankie Big Face band.
FRANKIE: The big, obvious, wonderful collaboration is the 3-CD AlbumFight! I did with ADD and the John Benjamin Band, where we each wrote and recorded an entire album using the same twelve song titles in three months time. While we didn't actually write or record any of the songs together, I consider the whole project to be a very successful collaboration.
Beyond that, I haven't done too much collaborating. The truth is, I'm not a very good collaborator, because I usually have a clear idea of what I want a song to sound like before I record it and I very rarely let anyone anywhere near an unfinished song. I have helped arrange and record some Brick Pig songs and have worked with the John Benjamin Band a couple of times, both writing and recording covers and original tunes. Monty (aka Brick Pig) is my first source for song help when I need it and I would love to write and record an album with him someday. In theory, I would also like to write a bunch of songs with John (aka John of the JBB), but I'm afraid we might kill each other.
JOHN M: Also, is there anyone with whom you want to collaborate, within or outside of Songfight?
FRANKIE: Yeah, there is, but since I use a hardware-based system and a Mac, it always seems like such a headache when I think about the prospect. I think it's awesome the way internet musicians are able to swap audio files and make these wonderful collaborative songs without ever setting foot in the same room or state or even country (the JBB/ADD songs come to mind, as well as the JBB/Patrick Clayton "Postcard" and the Dr. Worm/Add "Bad Dreams")! But because I use "non-standard" equipment, I'm kind of limited in what I can do.
That being said, I would love to spend a month or two in a room writing songs with Erik of 15-16 Puzzle and see what comes out of it. I would also welcome the opportunity to write a bunch of songs for Bill of Swedish Masturbation Unit (SMU) to produce. I think his music and my voice/melodies would make for an interesting combination. Those are the two that come to mind.
JON ERIC: I know you have experience working solo and working with a band. What input do the other band members have in full-band songs? Do you ever feel conflicted with them or compromised because of them? Do you prefer working with a band, or on your own? Do you still record any fully-aranged songs solo? Have you ever considered rerecording any of your single-instrument songs (for example, your "Bullseye Girl," which was really awesome and would have gotten my vote had I not jumped the gun and voted RxW) with the entire band?
FRANKIE: I think I covered the solo vs. band question earlier, but basically, when I was working in a band, input was welcome, but the arrangements were pretty much set. There were some conflicts, but I rarely felt compromised. I was working with a pretty good group of musicians.
I intend to return to recording more "fully-arranged" songs on my own, but the SongFight format doesn't allow a lot of time, so I often compromise just to get the song recorded in time for the fight. Bullseye Girl is actually a good example of this, as I fully intended it to be a "band" song but could not get it together in time. I've also gotten so used to working with a drummer that the idea of programming drums again depresses me!
JON ERIC: Also, how has your music affected your social life? Do you ever show your non-musician friends your songs? Your colleagues? Your students? What do they think about it? Do you have any groupies?
FRANKIE: Yeah, pretty much everyone I know knows about my "secret life" as a songwriter. When I first started writing, everyone checked out my website and listened to my songs and came to my shows, but after a while, the fanfare died down. Many of my students have heard my songs and they are always a bit shocked. Some even refuse to believe it's me! But most of them think it's cool and I feel like I'm setting a good example for them as someone who doesn't just talk about making music, but actually does it. Some of them bring me tapes or CDs of their songs and ask for advice, etc. Writing and recording as Frankie Big Face has added a whole new level to the relationship I have with many of my students. It's been really positive in that respect.
If I have groupies, I am unaware of them.
FLUFFY, DEFENDER OF THE CUTE: *sigh* Ignored again...
12/05/05 02:58:33
GAJOOB Interview
CATEGORY: interview
Doug Michael & The Outer Darkness
( comments)
web interview by gajoob.com
Tell us about your music activities.
I'm always recording and composing every chance I get. I'm currently finishing up my first CD entitled "Collections 1993 - 1997." The music is done and ready to burn onto CD. I'm just finishing up the cover art which has taken much longer than I expected. I'm hoping to have it completed by summer. With all that going on, I'm also recording new material. I have about thirty minutes of music composed with about have of that recorded and finished. I'm pretty excited about the new stuff and am trying some new things. I'm getting into the whole electronica stuff and generally my music lately has much quicker tempos. I've been heavily influenced by what David Bowie has been doing lately, specifically from his "Earthling" CD. Some great stuff and incredible guitar work from Reeves Gabrels.
Besides recording my solo stuff, I'm also in a band called HiNGE. We are a three piece rock instrumental group. We recently completed a two day recording session that hopefully will get burned to CD as well. We have done some gigs and a live radio concert at KALX radio on the UC Berkeley campus. Our drummer, Dan Buch, just had back surgery so HiNGE is on hiatus for the moment. Once he's fully recovered we plan on doing some more recording. We all are very into the group and we each have many, many ideas that I believe will propel the group for years with fresh creativity.
What's unique about your music?
I think my background is kind of unique in that after I initially took piano lessons, I abandoned the instrument and headed out to the Guitar Institute of Technology in Hollywood California. This was in 1982, and by 1996, I was majoring in Electro-Acoustic Music at San Jose State University. It's quite a change musically between GIT and San Jose State. I learned a lot of practical stuff at GIT like scales, technique, basic theory, arpeggios, and many different musical styles. Basically I learned how to play the guitar. At SJSU, I was exposed to Electro-Acoustic music which is an entirely different approach to music making. Electro-Acoustic music is really just another term for computer music, taking sounds and altering them with the aid of a computer. There are many software programs out there that can do this very effectively. One's that come to mind are SoundHack and Lemur. These are Macintosh based programs and simply take existing soundfiles and processes them. For example, say you have a soundfile that is 2 seconds in duration. With either one of these programs you can stretch or shorten the duration. You can also isolate certain frequencies of the soundfile and process them. There are many ways to alter a sound. With these new sounds you can create a musical composition. I have a 40 second composition entitled "Radio Sky part II" that is generated from a man's voice. When listening to this piece one is hard pressed in finding any resemblance to the voice. This was all done through altering the original sound of the voice. If you would like to hear "Radio Sky part II" check out my web site, I have a link to a site that has it in the real audio format. You'll need a real audio player. These two different areas of my background leads me into some very interesting sonic situations. I've only recently started mixing these two areas with some success. I love composing for the guitar and my first several cassette releases where extremely guitar dominant. The last few years I've started leaning away from the guitar focus and have incorporated more keyboards. Now that I'm using a blend of Electro-Acoustic music along with some sound design techniques, I feel I'm beginning to come up with some cool material. It seems like the natural progression for me and very exciting. Nothing is more enjoyable than to write a piece of music that you feel as a composer is different from anything you have done before. A lot has to do with just breaking those chains, trying new things, experimenting, and taking a chance. It is definitely easier said than done. My next goal is to start varying my guitar sound a little more. I seem to have 2 or 3 set sounds I always fall back on. I'm hoping to change this by my next release or two.
Why do you make music?
That's a tough one, a question that sometimes I'm not too clear on the answer. Other times I'm crystal clear. It's definitely a way to express yourself obviously, but for me it goes beyond that. I'm really into trying to create sound/music that is in some way unique or different. I gravitate toward sounds that are more on the darker side; minor keys, dissonant intervals, cluster chords, atonal patterns.... I also like to explore different techniques on the guitar. The two hand Van Halen thing is something I use, but in a much different way than Mr. Van Halen. I like playing two handed chords, where in playing a four note chord you use two notes for each hand and spread them out 7 - 10 frets apart from each other. To sound the chord I use my right hand pinky to strum the strings. One can come up with some interesting voicings. Also take a ordinary guitar riff and octave disperse it. Say you have a lick that goes up the scale playing the notes "A, B, & C." Take any of the notes and play it an octave higher or lower. This is easily done with two hands. In some of my tunes I incorporate the Stanley Jordan school of two hand, playing bass along with some two note chords. Many of these type of ideas are used throughout my music.
My goal is also to take the listener somewhere musically. I definitely try to make all my compositional ideas and guitar techniques as transparent as possible. To me, nothing is more boring than a guitar player wanking off. Guitar music by itself is not a big thing for me, at least not anymore. I used to listen very heavily to guys like Steve Vai and Allan Holdsworth. I love their music but after awhile their technique seems to get in the way of the music. Holdsworth relies way too much on the legato technique, for me I need more variance. That's why, especially with The Outer Darkness, I play a lot of keyboards. It breaks up the guitar dominance in the music. Plus the keyboard allows me to bring in different timbres and create some sonic events that are not possible with the guitar.
Over the years I've become very interested in sound design. Factory patches that come with most every keyboard are generally pretty boring. Sure there are some cool sounds out there, but for the most part about 85% of the factory sounds I get with a new keyboard I end up throwing out or develop into something else. I have an editor/librarian for my keyboard that allows me to create new sounds and store them on my mac computer. This has helped a lot and has really forced me to learn about synthesis and sound design.
What is your take on the current state of music?
I am extremely disappointed with about 99% of the music that is out there. To start, I think MTV should be banned, it is a total waste of sound, space, and time. That Puffy dude should be in jail for being a no talent thief. I would like to see some of these rap people try and create their own music, not steal someone else's music and rap over it. That is 100 percent bullshit. The whole song format is a tired and worn out form of music as is most of the subject matter that people sing about. I do see hope and lately it seems to come from the internet. The whole DiY scene has been pretty amazing and inspiring. I think the big record companies are not quite sure what to make of the internet. I can definitely see down the line that the need for big corporate record companies that dictate what we should listen to and buy will be obsolete. There will be no need for those blood sucking leeches and I say, "Good Riddance." The whole marriage of creative people with business people in record companies is just not a good one. With the internet the consumer will be able to buy directly from the artist. It's already happening, look at David Bowie and Prince.
I like what's happening over in England with the Electronica scene and also some of the DJ music over here. I just purchased a DJ spooky CD "Songs of a Dead Dreamer" - very cool. At least the samples he takes are changed using DJ techniques and cross fading between other sounds, creating something extremely different than the original piece of music that the sample came from. The electronica scene has brought back a lot of the old analog keyboard sounds and filtering techniques that seemed out of fashion several years ago. I love that stuff, some of those old keyboards are amazing. Lately I've been trying to track down a keyboard with an arpeggiator. I remember a few years ago no keyboard companies were putting arpeggiators in their keyboards, now they are a dime a dozen.
I think the Electronica music is taking the song format and reshaping it. This is a good thing and a long time coming. I've heard some very cool arrangements even from, I'm sad to say, Prodigy. A few of these groups are taking the basic verse-chorus, verse-chorus, solo chorus out, structure and throwing it out the window. I also like the Electronica stuff because of it's less emphasis on singing and a little more on the music. There's also a definite weight towards sound and creating sounds that change over time due to filtering, modulation or whatever.
I think mainstream music has and will change within the next several years. There are too many forces at work like the internet, Electronica music... I think change has already started but Electronica still isn't that big over here in the states. I'm hoping that will change, I would also like to see Electro-Acoustic music in the mainstream. The problem right now with E/A music is that it's locked up in the Colleges and Universities. This music is taught by composers that can talk up a storm and say actually nothing. Many of these guys speak of these lofty musical concepts and then you hear their music and you think, man that guy was full of crap. I believe this has turned many people away from what is really important, and that is, the music. Electro-Acoustic music has some great things to offer and has really changed my whole way of listening to music. But talking about it doesn't cut it for me, you have to experience it. If you have never heard of this type of music I suggest you check it out. Some great places to start are on the web like the Electronic Music Foundation. Their address is; http://www.emf.org or the Consortium to Distribute Computer Music (CDCM). Their web address is; http://www.music.unt.edu/CEMI/CDCM. Another place is your local College, they usually have a nice collection of music from all styles. I know my college had turntables and CD players at the library. So I would check some music out and listen to them right there.
What are your future musical plans?
To keep on composing and recording. To me that is the main thing. I want to keep trying to expand my ears and come up with interesting music. I really want to get into incorporating my guitar with more Electro-Acoustic and Electronica music. I want to develop my new CD company "Angular Momentum CD's" into something that is profitable and self-sustaining. I would like to release at least one project a year on my Angular Momentum label. I think the first one will be the toughest, after that I envision things will get a little easier. Of course my ultimate goal, as is every musician or composer, is to do this full time and quit my day job. For me that would be better than winning the lottery!
I would like to give a tremendous Thank You to Bryan Baker here at Gajoob for his tireless work in promoting the Do It Yourself musician, an amazing web site, and for all the great exposure you have given me throughout the years with reviews of my music, the Smell of Sucess Gajoob CD, and your incredibly informative DiY Report.
07/26/06 07:30:48
Chris Ballew Interview by Bryan Baker (1990)
CATEGORY: interview
I thank God Chris Ballew sent me his new tape Lint Cake. I would often slip a tape he was involved on with a band called EGG entitled Smell Me Fist and just revel in the infectious melodies and tightknit band chemistry of the songs. When Chris renewed contact from the other side of the continent, I was curious about what was going on. And this is what I found out. . . .
( comments)
How long have you been involved in independent taping? Give a short history of your activities, i.e., when started, why did you start; bands, solo projects; tape highlights; related events, etc.
I started taping in second grade when my best friend and I began a "radio show" on cassette called The Bear Show. It was a call-in talk show (AM Radio style) we made on a little Sony deck and we even had a little stuffed bear for that authentic feel. Later, I began putting music from my dad's guitar onto one deck and playing that into the mic of another while adding sound with the brother of my "bear" friend on drums. I do mention all of this because the guy I did that first multi-track recording with is still my partner and plays drums in our new band CREEPY STICK. The two of us also back up a hillbilly jazz star named Will Kitchen. (I bet when you asked this question you didn't think you would get a "beginning of time story"!). So, I started just for the thrill of hearing sound I had made come back at me on tape and receiving that sound instead of playing it.
David Thiele, the child drummer, and I started DAVID AND THE OVERTONES when I was 10 and he was 6. We made tapes on drums (Sears Denim) and an upright piano and we even had our own theme song! This was pure fun.
Then there were a couple of punk bands in the 70's in High School with my buddy Dale Peyser (who was later in EGG). Then Ska was in our heads. Then keyboards took me on a new wave odyssey and finally I re-discovered guitar and began a band in New York at school with Dale and two New Yorkers. One was Phil Franklin who would be the drummer in EGG. By this time I was all songs. But they were fantasy songs none written about anything close to me, All from some alien perspective, based in rootsy rock and roll.
Tell me about EGG, both the band and the concept (other media projects you were involved with like the poster). What things did you accomplish? Was there any sort of guiding theme to it all? Fun? Experimentation?
Phil and I moved to Boston and began EGG as a street act. I had a little Sears guitar (we like Sears) and a mouse amp and he played the suitcase. He carried his little trap set in as a bass drum. We had traveled across the country after college, living in a small, brown hatchback and playing on the street. We really flourished on the sidewalk. We got the feeling right away for what would make people listen and what wouldn't. I would recommend a street gig at least once a month for anyone. It's free, no cover charge (unless people wish), grannies to babies can dig it and it's free publicity.
While on the street we were seen by Billy Ruane, who was the ringmaster at the Middle East, a showcase type restaurant and bar with a club in the back. They put on the best shows I ever saw in Boston. So we played there when we weren't in the Subway, adding Dale on bass.
The name EGG came from Mike Dwyer, an artist we worked with. We were all artists' assistants for the same artist and we had access to a wood shop so we started our own collective called EGG. We had a one page double-sided 'zine called EGG so the natural thing to do was to call the band EGG as well.
The guiding theme was definitely FUN. For a long time, songs were pouring out of me that were fun to play over and over. I judged a song by how many laughs it got. We were like a musical stand-up comedy troupe. We would do the same act in clubs and on the street, testing out new material on the street. Unfortunately, we didn't do a lot of experimentation. I wrote the songs and showed them to Phil and Dale, and in retrospect, I was too dictatorial about how I wanted them to be played. Our favorite way to release tension was late night mid-Summer on-the-street drum-jams. We would haul out all kinds of noise makers including Mike's car and huge cardboard tubes and go bananas.
Was EGG's demise an amiacable one? For some reason, I get the impression that the split was done under some sort of duress. . .
We played on for two years, and, as the street gigs became less spontaneous and my ability to write songs began to dry up, we started to stagnate. But we didn't take notice of it at first. We kept getting gigs and playing out, doing the same songs over and over. It was like making the same sculpture over and over and over. We never saw the obvious solution of making the band a democratic scene and giving up gigs so we could relax and approach it a new way. The fun is in creation, not repetition, of the product. But having not realized this yet we continued to play and after frustration became boredom, we broke up.
Did you take a break from recording (or other activities) after the end of EGG?
I have never taken a break from recording for more than one month. It's amazing to me. As surely as I eat and breathe, I record. There was a time after EGG when I was recording too much. I like the sensation of recording so much that I would do it even when I have nothing to say. I've learned to hold off and develop an idea somewhat before I put it on tape now. The result is a sense of accomplishing a goal and achieving a successful recording. But with no goal in mind I could fiddle with the same two tracks of improvisation for weeks without any satisfaction.
After EGG, I thought of myself as a "solo artist" and recorded demos of my old songs that never made it into EGG. That never went any farther than my bedroom. I went through the "dark side of the force" period for a year where my songs were depressing and ugly both musically and subject wise. Rape and torture were the themes along with suicide and distrust of hippies.
All this time I was able to get together with Dave Thiele for a week or two each year to record. These sessions saved my music. It was my only chance to bounce off of someone else. Later, I got a house with a basement and that was the best move ever. We would invite people from other bands in Boston over and spew out whatever was on our minds. Dave from the VOLCANO SUNS came a lot, Andy from SORRY, Greg from THE SKIADELICS lived there (a single-stringed ski instrument that change my life) Phil from EGG was over a lot and Mark Brooks, a jazz bass and piano player who showed me all kinds of new music I never knew existed came too. Mark Sandman from MORPHINE also came and showed me the wonders of the "tritar" and African pop. So all this exchange was great for all involved. We played out as DOWN and LOUD SUE and Mark B released two jams on a record called BALLS. This jamming was a very freeing experience for me. No expectations meant concentrating on the doing of music and drew attention away from the results.
Tell me about the "Lint" project.
LINT CAKE is a collage of 30-second to 2-minute ideas. I was still recording after I moved home to Seattle, two years after EGG and losing the satisfaction the basement brought when I realized that all along, no matter if I was writing songs or screaming my head off on a shitty basement P.A., there were these small, short, windey, little instrumentals coming out of me. So I paid attention to them and started developing them as an identity. I focused on something I had always done, but classified as second class to songs. Putting Lint Cake together was a celebration of recognizing those little jams and the pure fun of spontaneous splicing of tape.
All the music on Lint Cake is new ã made since I got back to Seattle. The fun took over and I just let the final product have a life of its own. I wasnt in total control of Lint Cake. Even though I released the second draft, it still sort of made itself. But I trust what I did because it was effortless and free. I want to work more on this format so that eventually the fun will accompany a well conceived and infectious series of instrumentals. Lint Cake makes me very happy.
Above all, I think that music should speak about who you are. Music, and cassettes in particular, are like little time capusles to me. You shoot them out all over the place and speak to many more people than you could with one mouth. In that way the sound must be individual to be received by someone else. If the music shows thought, choice and personality that is unique (not necessarily original) then I like it. That is someone talking to me with music, and if there is care in what is being said, there will be a message for the listener.
So far Lint Cake is just me. I wanted to do it alone so I was totally free to construct it. Collaborating requires slowing down and accepting the input of others. That is the way to work that I enjoy, but this way was more personal.
What are you doing now?
And now there is CREEPY STICK! David Thiele, the lad I grew up with, is on drums; and I have developed a 3-string basitar modeled after Mark Sandmans tritar. I modified an old Truetone that Mark sold me so it sounds like a bass and plays like a guitar (see illustration). And David is becoming a great drummer too. Without an idea of how he should be playing, he has developed his own unique mastery of the skins. He plays them like a lead instrument or a voice talking sometimes.
Improvisation leads to songs, and freedom is the key ingredient in this cake. We want to round out the sound with a clarinet or trumpet or sax or all three later when we find the right person. For now, I play clarinet on tape. We are releasing a tape soon of older material as a starting point. We improvise all the time into a dictaphone recorder (sounds a lot like 1975) then develop what we like into jams to be played on stage and street.
Dave and I are also backing up a friend of mine from Boston named Will Kitchen. We dont have a name yet, but we got some swingin Texas happy cactus music that you will hear soon.
Any future plans?
The future is excellent! Dave and I are finding the sounds that hung in the air when we were 10 and 6 are our identity. We are finding our unique sound quality. The satisfaction in being able to wear the sound you make like an individual coat of arms is very exciting. And being able to realize this with the same person I began making music with is like coming full circle. A complete feeling. Im not totally down on what I did in EGG, but the music we are making now is truly who we are and being close to that creativity is electric.
Chris Ballew is the singer/basitarist for The Presidents of the United States of America. GAJOOB did follow-up interview with Chris as the feature in our new free Homemade Music Magazine, which can be requested here.
07/26/06 07:45:20
Dino DiMuro Interview by Bryan Baker (1989)
CATEGORY: interview
Dino DiMuro has been active in Cassette Culture for several years. He consistently produces tapes which rank among the best that independent recording has to offer. The following interview was conducted courtesy of Alexander Bell's wonderful invention, on the night of August 6, 1989.
( comments)
I just bought a $10 turntable at a garage sale because it said it had 78 on it, and I have tons of 78s that my parents and grandparents gave me; and I got it home, and it turns out it only plays 33. But I haven't had a turntable-- well, I have one, but a friend has been borrowing for like 3 years. So I just hooked this thing up, and it actually plays records pretty well. So I'm rediscovering all my vinyl that's in the closet.
Quite an experience, huh?
Yeh. I bought a Residents album today. I haven't bought a record in a long time....
So, have you got a few minutes?
Sure.
Want to do an interview?
Sure. I don't know how interesting I'll be.
Well, I don't know how interesting I'll be either.... Let's start out with some boring questions and hope it turns into something interesting. How about some background information?
Oh, God! What do you want to know?
Like musical stuff. How you got started, or...
The earliest instrument I played was 5-string banjo. And I played that because when I was about eight or nine I guess, or ten, I saw Bonnie and Clyde; and I was really excited by the Flatt and Scruggs soundtrack. That was one of the first records I owned. All I ever wanted to do was copy that 5-string banjo picking style. Actually, my grandmother tried to get me to play piano when I was five, and I had about a month's worth of lessons, but I really wasn't into the piano. I really didn't want to do that. So later, I got the banjo...
Also, I'd always been interested in tape media. Owning a tape recorder, to me, was the pinnacle. I thought that being able to record the theme songs to Get Smart and The Munsters would just be incredible. And, at the time, they only had those reel to reel machines (with the tiny wheels-- those 3-inch ones).
Yeh, I got one of those.
My mom got me one out of the Blue Chip stamp catalog. So I was trying to legitimately learn to play the banjo; but at the same time I was doing these incredible noise montage noise-fest things. First, I called the band The Screamers. By this time I was about nine.
Then I hooked up with a guy named John Gibson, who came into my school in the sixth grade. I don't know what possessed me to do this, but I played him one of the weird tapes that I made on my own, and then he wanted to join in and make some. I don't know if this was true for you, but at that age having a group, or pretending that you were a group was just the ultimate uncool thing to do-- I mean, to actually presume that you were a GROUP!!
So in a shroud of secrecy we would get together on the weekends with noisemakers and stuff, and just bang away, and just make these completely outrageous, noisy tapes. Then he got an electric guitar, so I later got one also. And then from there, slowly, both of us actually learned to play.
Do you still have some those recordings?
I have everything I've ever recorded [laughs]!
Do you really?!
Yeh, with the exception of about 20 tapes that have disappeared. I've lived in about six different places, and I was always real careful to move all the tapes every time. But for some reason I've lost 20 things from about '76 or '75-- like phone calls and stuff. But all the important musical stuff, most of it is still there.
So you probably got quite a big collection of your own stuff.
Yeh, it's around 700 tapes
Have you ever released some of the older stuff?
Every once in a while I put some of it on my tapes. DiMurohouse-- I put a little on there. But the sad fact is, it's so unlistenable that even with John I have to severely edit and equalize it to get him to listen to just a few minutes of it. It was done on these shitty little cassette recorders with the really bad microphones, completely over-modulated a lot of the time.
So the stuff that we did from '69 to '71, most of that is barely listenable. He went away to Ireland for a couple years, and then he came back. Then once he came back, most of the stuff actually started sounding like "songs." We played together until we graduated from High School. Then he went back to Ireland a second time, and later he moved to Oregon. So I play with him whenever I go to visit, but that's only like twice a year.
Have you been in bands over the years, or have you stuck strictly to recording?
In High School, I was in a Cream-type band-- sort of a power-blues boogie-type trio.
You played guitar?
Yeh. But I got thrown into that almost by accident. I had a friend who was in the band, and I was invited to play along; and they ended up liking me better than their other guy. But I had never been into Clapton, and I didn't know very much Cream at all, whereas the bass player and the drummer were acolytes of Baker, Jack Bruce and Clapton. I played along the best I could, but I had never been in a live band before and I'd only had a few lessons. So ultimately they kicked me out-- they were really too good for me.
A couple years after that I was in a band that played High School dances, and we played a lot of Eagles and some Joe Walsh stuff, Deep Purple.... The pinnacle for that band was one night we opened for Van Halen at a High School dance.
Are you serious?!
Yeh. I think they were about a year away from signing their contract. The school that hired us was called Romona Convent. It's basically an hispanic girl's school. This was '75 or '76. Disco had not really caught on yet, it was still called soul music. This was a crowd that definitely did not want to hear heavy metal or rock; they wanted soul music. They wanted dance music, that kind of stuff. So we came on, and they really did not like us. They looked at us, and they really didn't like the stuff we were playing. I have a tape of that show. Then when we were done, Van Halen came on and just wailed! Owww!! And everyone in the auditorium walked out. They all decided, "Fuck this," and they all got in their cars and drove away. So Van Halen just kept on playing, "Wow! We really got ourselves a wild house here tonight!" Most of the other guys in our band hated Van Halen. They had a reputation for being this snotty metal group, and they were supposed to be so good. But me and the drummer thought they were great, so we just went up and sat right in front of them. The stage, I think, was right on the floor, it was only elevated a little bit from the floor. So while the other band members packed the stuff away, me and the drummer just took in the show, just the two of us-- there was nobody else in the auditorium. So when they finished their set, I went up to David Lee Roth and I said, "You guys are gonna be famous some day." And he said, "Yeh! Allright!!" He shook my hand, and me and the drummer quit the band the next day 'cos we were so humiliated by how good Van Halen was.
And the rest is history....
Unfortunately, I wish I had a tape running. I recorded our set, but tape in those days was a little harder to come by, so I didn't record Van Halen. It would have been fun to have.
So when did you get into independent taping and distributing?
Well, I'd always sort of done it. When John and I did it, we only had one master that was really the only copy that existed. And we had an audience of one, I think. We had a guy named Greg who just happened to hear one of the tapes once and said, "Oh, that's pretty good." So he was doomed from that point on, 'cos we'd get him stoned and play him the new tape and stare at him to see what he would do.
Then when I started playing on my own, I would play them for whoever was my girlfriend at the time. Maybe one or two other people. Even then we would pass the master around. Finally, I started going with a lady named Anna, who worked at a radio station KPFK down here, and I think she was the first person to play any of it on the air. As a result of getting involved in the radio station, I started passing out a few copies of the tapes to some of the other DJs and some of the other people I knew there.
It was about that time that I started listening to a radio show, FRGK with Brent Wilcox. He mentioned that OP magazine was folding, and that there was a new magazine called Option that was going to be taking over. So I subscribed before the first issue had even come out. I was completely blown away that everybody seemed to be doing this. Up 'til then, if I ever ran into anybody at the radio station who sent in a tape, I would immediately write to them; but usually nothing ever came of it. But I was blown away with all these addresses and reviews, and that they were actually considering it an art form. It's pretty amazing, but once you think about, you think, "Well, how could it be any other way?"
At this point, I had five or six releases with actually tape covers, but I knew that any single one of them was probably not good enough to send to Option, so I put together a little best-of tape, and mailed that to Option and a few other people-- actually to about ten or eleven people that I had read about in Option. And most them are people I am still writing too. Like Tom Furgas, Al Perry, Ken Clinger....
The next tape I made was "Mutual Admiration Society." That was really the beginning of trading and sending out a lot of tapes. Option reviewed me once, and then they didn't review me for quite a while. So I got pissed off, because I noticed that Tom Furgas was getting reviewed every single issue. I finally got so angry that I wrote a nasty letter to Ritchie Unterberger. And he wrote back and defended Option, saying that, at the time, they reviewed about 90% of all the cassettes they got, which is nowhere near the truth now. It just got so popular and so many tapes started coming in. So I wrote back to him and I offered to review tapes. From reviewing I really got quite a few more contacts.
How do you approach reviewing?
First of all, reviewing tapes is about the worst way possible to actually get into the tapes because what happens is Option gets tons and tons of tapes. Ritchie will go through and try to weed out the ones that are really obviously not good. He sends me about fifteen every issue. I assume all the other reviewers get at least that many also. I usually don't get them until about three weeks before deadline. So I've got to sit down and listen to about fifteen tapes at least once. And to really get a feel for a tape, you've got to listen to it twice or even three times, then be able to write something that has some kind of intelligence and some kind of viewpoint.... There have been times when I have actually liked a tape, but couldn't get a handle on what to say about it, and the deadline would go by and I would never get around to actually reviewing it. People complain a lot about their tapes not getting reviewed. There are so many reasons why I might pass on a tape, and even if I write a review on it, Option might not run the review because maybe they have too many tapes in that genre or they just don't have the space to run it.
My approach to reviewing has really sort of evolved. In the old days I would play every single one and give it the benefit of the doubt all the way through. Now, unfortunately, if there's not something original about a tape within the first twenty minutes I put it aside 'cos there's just too much stuff. Too much to listen too. And I find that there's a point where I just can't take in any more new sound. There's just so much stuff, that it starts to really hurt the other tapes that I want to review. So I'll go through all fifteen tapes and find the seven or so that really have something original. I will then play those seven over and over, until I get down to maybe five or six, and write the reviews.
There are a lot of drawbacks to this. Something may strike me as original and stand out and I'll be happy about it and write an ecstatic review; and later, I'll play it again and realize that it only sounded fresh at the time, and it really wasn't as good as I thought, but I was just so happy to have something that stood out from the pack. And I'll feel kind of bad later, thinking, "Oh, God, I hope I don't turn too many people on to this and have them be pissed off." So I've tried to avoid that pitfall. And the other problem is that there's just a lot of music that grows on you with time, and I might slight something or not be as enthusiastic about something that will later grow on me; or even completely avoid something that might be good. I've done that a couple times-- like with Cleaners From Venus, I didn't like the tape I got a few years ago, and apparently a lot of people like that tape. So you just do the best you can....
About how many tapes do you have, with buying and trading and reviewing?
I've never actually counted, but I'd say it's around 200-250 tapes. I have a cut-off point because there's a guy named Peter Gulerood[?] who has a band called Uzima, and he's an animator who does a lot of work at home, drawing at his desk all day; and he just plays music constantly. It turns out that he'll take anything I don't want, so every six months or so I gather all the tapes I know I don't want, and he gladly takes them off my hands. So that way I'm trying to hone down my collection to only the stuff that I really listen too. I feel bad that I can't save all the stuff that people send me, but I just ended up having too much material.
Let's move on to how you record....
I have a Teac reel-to-reel 4-track machine. Until recently I would record onto the four tracks and bounce to an Akai 2-track reel-to-reel machine, mixing those four tracks down to two, and then bounce back to the 4-track. And I would do that process up to eight, or sometimes ten tracks. Just this week I purchased a Toshiba VCR that has PCM sound on it, so I'm getting an almost perfect bounce now. I've just done a song where I have ten tracks and it sounds just as good as ones I did with six tracks before. So that's real exciting. I was waiting to do this with DAT tape, but since they never came out.... It looks like they're going to come out now, but they're going to make it so you can go from one CD or one other tape, but you can't make mulitple copies from that particular tape.
What kind of effects do you use?
I have a Korg reverb unit that has about ninety settings on it that I've had for about a year. And I have a bunch of foot pedals for the guitar. Up 'til then I did some pretty cheesy tricks, like reverb on the 4-track by feeding a track into itself, delayed a little bit; and sometimes I'd put keyboards through the guitar foot pedals or through a little Realistic reverb thing I got from Radio Shack.
You also do a lot of stuff with speed manipulation of vocals.
Yeh. The 4-track is able to go from plus or minus 5%.
How did you get the vocal sound on "Clem's Flapjack Feast?" [from I'll Be Good]
I believe I slowed that down 5%; but I also have a pretty elastic voice. I'm able to go pretty low and pretty high anyway. There's some songs that Don Campau automatically assumed I had speeded up or slowed down, and I know that I hadn't done that.
I like the vocal on that song.
Oh, good! Yeh, that old man's voice is a voice I do a lot in my life, so it was pretty easy to sing.
You collaborate with several people.
Sometimes, yeh.
Do you like doing that?
It depends on how busy I am. With Tom Furgas, I had wanted to collaborate with him for a while. I was kind of green in the network, and he had a lot of other people he was working with. Then, out of nowhere, I guess I was finally good enough to collaborate with, because suddenly he sent me a whole bunch of material. I was sort of pissed off at first because I thought a lot of it was really hard to work with. But then, as I started to work with it, I thought of it as a challenge and thought that he was challenging me to expand. So it was fun to do that.
I also did a couple collaborations with Van Hofmann, but we've kind of fallen out of contact and we don't trade that much any more. And I just did something for a compilation Al Perry is putting together. And for Don Campau, I'll do anything anytime 'cos his stuff always comes out so good. Although he wanted me to do some voice stuff for his "Dreamstate" tape, and I just couldn't bring myself to actually complete what I was doing-- I couldn't get myself to just speak into the microphone and tell my dream, so that tape went out without me on it.
Did you like how that turned out?
Oh, yeh. It's a little spacy for me, but I liked it. I tried to listen to it in the car and it distracted me a little too much.
Who are some of your favorite cassette artists?
Um....[painfully]... Don, Al Perry & Fish Karma, Tom Furgas, Ken Clinger, Kevin Diamond.... um... Dan Fioretti. I know there's a whole bunch of people I'm missing.
What kind of stuff do you generally like? Is it more song-oriented?
Yeh, I tend to like song stuff. I don't really like the noise people too much. So people who are based in the song mode, and then expand from that, like Don Campau, those are the people I tend to like.
Oh! Okay. Also Joe Numan with Rudy Schwartz Project, and YU.
I've received 110 tapes for this issue.
Wow! Just from the magazine?
Yeh.
And you're still reviewing all of them?
Yeh. I don't know how it will hold up over time, but that's what I'm going to try to do.
And you're still receiving more every day?
Yeh. I've got close to a dozen since the Option review came out.
There's a letter in the new Sound Choice from a guy named Russ Stedman who, I believe, has bought some of my tapes through the mail. And what's funny about it is that it's almost exactly the same letter that I sent to Ritchie Unterberger back in '85 with the names changed. And he says, "I'm sick of sending you guys tapes. I've sent you nine tapes, and you didn't review any of them. Whereas, guys like Chadbourne and DiMuro seem to get three tapes reviewed per issue."
Is that true?
Well, Dan Fioretti does review a lot of my tapes. I don't send him that many review copies, but Dan, I think, just likes to review my stuff. So I have been in there a lot. But that's exactly the same letter I sent to Ritchie, except I said guys like Tom Furgas are in there two or three tapes per issue.
So I guess you have to send Russ a letter now, and he'll write back apologetically and pretty soon he'll have three tapes per issue in there.
David, the editor, replied that the squeaky wheel does get the grease with him and that if you write him letters like that you're more than likely to get reviewed.
Which of your own tapes is your favorite?
Um.... I hate to say it, but "A Real Pretty Rose." [laughs].
Really?
[sarcastically] It's those train sounds that I really like.
Yeh. Getting on and off that train.....
Yeh, I would say "A Real Pretty Rose," but I think that's the one I like 'cos I like that kind of music the most; but I think the most consistent one was "Mutual Admiration Society," and that one is also the biggest seller. Do you have that one?
No, I don't.
It's kind of primitive now. I didn't have any synthesizer. I just had this Casio and the shitty Casio drum programs-- the shitty ones; I have another Casio and I use the drum programs on it a lot, but this is an older one that has a really shitty cymbal sound that just sounds like white noise and the keyboard is sort of organ-ish, farfisa sounding. But I was in love at the time. A girlfriend had just died, and I had just gotten together with a new girlfriend, but it was a long distance relationship. And this tape was about all my frustration of having all this horrible shit just happen to me, and then having this new love all fired up; and I put out this very incredibly consistent, from beginning to end, tape. Even people who aren't really into home tapes seem to like that tape for some reason.
What do you like most about recording?
I still just like taping shit. Like I'm going to Oregon in three days, and tonight I was just sitting here opening all my boxes of blank tapes so that I would have them ready to have the tape running while I'm on my trip. I just love taping things anyway. But I also really love music, and I'm really trying to become a better composer and a better musician. And I do love to write songs and sing and play. I know I'm not a great singer, and a lot of times I try to leave tracks open for other people to sing. Like on my new tape I'm definitely goint to try to get this girl I found to sing on a lot of the songs.
Really?
Yeh.
But I like your voice!
Well, good! Good.
Really. I'm serious. Especially "Clem's Flapjack Feast."
[laughter]
Well, that stuff I can nail!
You seem to write a lot about relationships.
Yeh?
What other subjects do you like to tackle?
Well, as a person, I am more politically aware, but whenever I try to tackle that stuff.... I mean there are many greater thinkers other than myself, and I really had to face the fact that I'm really not an intellectual, and I really can't lead people. So the best I can do is to be entertaining and try to put a couple things in there along the way to make people think about something. But there's a lot of stuff that pisses me off that I try to get in there.
What kind of stuff do you avoid?
Have you ever heard Rudy Schwartz Project? That's an example of a guy who will tackle stuff head on like the way Zappa does it-- quite blatantly. He did a song about Jimmy Swaggert, whom he dispises. His songs come out as sort of tirades-- kind of a take no prisoners effect. I admire him for taking a stand and blasting out like that. And I've tried to do that, but I just can't. It sounds kind of stupid when I do it. Like I just did a song about Weird Al on my tape. He's always pissed me off, because, to me, he's just a watered down version of Stan Freeburgh and Spike Jones and a lot of the great satarists from the old days. But, to me, Weird Al is a whore because he's friends with the people he satarizes. Like he uses the same sets that Michael Jackson used in his video. And it seems to me that he's the kind of guy that has one or two decent ideas, but then his fame is just completely overblown compared to the stuff that he's actually doing. So I thought, "Yeh, I'm gonna be politically aware and do this song about Weird Al and really show him for the whore that he is!" But once the song was done, it really seemed kind of silly; and people go, "Why are you getting so worked-up about Weird Al? You're so angry in the song...." And now when I listen to it, it starts out okay, but then it just kind of turns into name-calling in the end. And I think to myself, "Well, this is really not the kind of thing I should do. I'm just really not able to express myself in that way. It just becomes so petty." And once the song was done, I thought, "Well, I guess there's more important things to worry about than Weird Al."
Yeh, like girls, huh?
[laughter]
What current projects are you working on?
I've always had this dream of doing a double cassette, and this time I'm really going to try to actually pull it off. The problem always is that I never really have enough good material for a double cassette-- or even for a single cassette. There's always just one or two songs that I kind of wish weren't in there. But they get back in just by default. This time I think I'm gonna pull it off, because I'm going to do a lot of cover versions of other home-taper stuff. I'm gonna do maybe three Don Campau songs and something by Cowtown and a couple other people that I can't remember right at the moment. Also, because of the longer format, I'm gonna stretch out a little bit and not have the songs all be so short. And also I have just shitloads of jams and phonecalls and stuff that I'm dying to stick in there. And I'm trying to not be in a rush about it. Just go slowly and collect the material.
You were talking about some tapes that you found in some guy's apartment after he had moved, about all his sexual....
Oh, yeh!
Are you gonna put that on there?
Yeh, Carvel! I sent you the one on the Furgas tape with the whores?
Yeh.
He has a thing where he sings "Piano Roll Blues" or something. First, his Nephew or somebody is singing completely out of tune and also kind of creepy-sounding. And then Carvel comes on and sings it like, "Okay, kid, I'm gonna show you the way it's supposed to be sung." And he sings it pretty well, but it's still rather bizarre to hear him singing; and it's just the vocal with nothing else on the tape, so I'm going to have a lot of fun building up the backgrounds on that and having that as the lead vocal.
And then he also had a lot of material that he recorded right off the radio. Like the Watts riots being reported. And he had a thing about LSD, a little mini-documentary: "LSD-- this is an actually hippy on LSD: 'Wow, man, there's colors!'" So there's some great stuff there. And he had a stereo demonstration tape that he got from a store that has some great sound effects on it, with an announcer going, "If you think this is good, just listen to this!" So I'll be able to play with that stuff.
Sounds like you found a treasure chest or something.
Yeh! I don't think there's much good sex stuff left, so I'll just leave that stuff out. Plus I've been buying a lot of sound effects CDs. I've found that my CD player is sort of a poor man's sampler, in that if I play something and then push the search button real quick, it will play that section over and over. I've already done one song with a lead vocal that is an army unit out in the fields shouting, "One, two, three, four!" and the Sergeant going, "Huh!!" So I sampled that in a way and had that in time with the music I was playing.
What do like about being involved in cassette culture, as opposed to just passing tapes out to your friends and other people?
Well, there's something really exciting about getting a tape from somebody and having it actually be as good as something you would buy in a store. I only have a few tapes I feel this way about, but when I get one that I remember or play as many times as I would play like a Captain Beefheart album, and then try to turn other people on to it, that's exciting because you know that there's not that many people out there who have the same tape. It's very special. I must admit that I have a real problem with anything that's really popular. That's probably just as bad a prejudice as people who don't want anything that's alternative. But the more people like something, the less I want to know about it. So cassettes are about as close as you can get to that. And somebody like Daniel Johnston is probably the pinnacle of that, although he's becoming sort of well-known now. His stuff is just so completely bare-- I mean it's just him and a keyboard or him and a guitar. That's what I like about cassette culture-- finding these treasures.
Have you gotten any cassette chain letters?
I did that once. I've got a few of them. The problem was that I finally got two tapes at the end of the line, and one of them I already had from Option, and the other one I guess was okay, but it was the same problem as always in that I have too many tapes. I've really gotten jaded over the four or five years since I started.
Do you have any ideas about distribution? How do you distribute your tapes? Or do you rely mostly on orders?
I've actually gotten worse about that. I think, initially, I would always have about twenty people that I would automatically send one too. I would either owe them one, or I would just want them to have a tape. And then Option or Sound Choice would review the tape and I would send one to whoever wrote or wanted it or sent money. Then there'd be a few people that I would hear about that I would want to trade with. And in that way I would end up sending close to 50-60 copies of a single tape out. But I've gotten so lazy about that, that now with my last tape I only hit about twenty, and I'm really not making any effort to get more of them out there. But recently I put together like a greatest hits tape, and I have an ad that will be in the next issue of Option.
Going big time, huh?
Well, you saw my ad for "A Real Pretty Rose."
Yeh.
It's kind of fun. It's really an ego kind of thing, 'cos there's no way you're ever gonna make back enough to pay off the cost of the ad with cassettes. I just can't see that happening. It's partly an ego thing and it's partly a way to remind people that you're out there. Because I am so bad about trading, my sources have kind of dried up. And I sort of want people to be aware that I have this material and that it's there, because even though Option's circulation is way up, I get many less responses from the casssette reviews there than I used too. Maybe it's because the cassette reviews section is so far in the back now. I don't think they review any fewer tapes than they used too, it just looks smaller. But that's obviously not where their main thrust is.
Would you like to hit the big time?
I have this sort of half-assed plan that I'm supposed to be following-- that I continue to do the music and build up the equipment until it starts to sound semi-professional. And when it hits that point, I think I may try to go the novelty single route. Try not to sell out, but try to get the material of mine that is closest to the mainstream and get it out there and see if anything happens with it. And at the same time that I'm trying to do that, I'm also looking into filmmaking and some other ventures. Ultimately, one thing will lead to another. Like if the music took off, that would help me in my filmmaking or vice versa. The first thing I did recently that was actually outside my own realm was that I did two pieces of music for a friend of mine who did a live show here. Somebody else had written the music, so I was going from sheet music, but it was all my arrangements and recording. It was an effort for me to break out of this thing that I'm doing by myself. it actually drove me crazy to have to do someone else's music, and get it so that somebody else liked it. it took me forever. I had to do many versions of the stuff. And once it was over, I just felt like doing it never again. That's a reason why I didn't get into filmmaking more, it's such a collaborative media and I basically like to work alone-- and this is about as alone as you can get.
Sounds almost depressing.
[laughter]
No!! It's wonderful! No one tells you it's shitty. Like, I'll take a ruff mix of a song to my girlfriend who's got very conservative musical tastes compared to mine; and three times now she's said that she doesn't like a vocal on a song. She'll say that she thinks the vocals should be more scary, because I did a song about (this is so embarassing) a strip joint around here, and the music has a pretty hard driving rock beat and it's got some pretty loud fuzz guitars, and right in the middle of that I stuck this "Green Tambourine" style harmony vocal. So, of course, she goes, "Wait! That doesn't go with the hard-driving rock. Those vocals are too whiney, they're too pretty. You should have a scary vocal in there." And just hearing that will piss me off, 'cos I'll think, "No! That's not what I'm going for. Don't you understand?!" But sometimes I think she's like the voice of the public, and I will compromise a little bit and think that she has a point.
Do you see cassette culture taking off any more than where it is right now?
Well, we're in a really weird time, in that the formats are all over the place. DAT is going to come out, and possibly recordable CDs are gonna come out. Cassettes right now are outselling all other formats. It's real strange. When I was recording with John, our dream was to put out a piece of vinyl. This was the ultimate dream. Cassettes were just a temporary thing and they were substandard just by their very existence-- and, at the time, they really were. The first time I actually heard a good stereo cassette player, I couldn't believe how good it sounded because, to me, the format was just a stopgap. But now, the dream of having a record is kind of stupid, because everything sounds so much better on a good chrome cassette. Vinyl has all those pops and clicks and becomes very degraded through the recording process unless you can afford the very best pressing. I've seen some prices for putting out CDs, and there are a couple hometapers who have put out CDs that I know of. And then DATs are coming out and they just might catch on, and if they actually become affordable it doesn't seem like there will be any reason for the standard cassette to exist any more. So I really have no idea where the culture thing is headed.
Do you see it going with digital then?
Oh, I think it's going to help everybody because I think it will make everybody's stuff sound that much better. I think it can only help as far as that goes.
What about as far as acceptance on more of a mass level?
Well, it's gonna sound better, but I don't know if people are ever gonna listen to anything they're not told is cool. I think things are worse off, in a way, than they ever were, because-- and Zappa says this better that I could ever say it --people basically use music as a lifestyle augmentation. They really don't listen to be challenged. Like with my girlfriend who listens to Stevie Winwood, who just makes my skin curl; and she'll say, "Oh, I'm sorry! Because it doesn't sound ugly. And isn't something that three people ever listen too. And isn't something that is completely trashy, therefore, it's not good, right?"
And you say, "Right."
[laughter]
So it's really not cool for people to listen to this stuff. Like she has a few friends that even "Trouble at the Mutual Admiration Society," they wouldn't even listen to that because it was obviously not something that somebody "cool" put out. It was obviously something that somebody did in their bedroom, and it would not do them any good to have anyone ever know that they had heard my tape. So they just said, "Oh, I can't listen to this," and just took the headphones off.
I have this hope that some people will open up; but I think there's a finite number of those people that are gonna be interested in alternative music. And I don't know how close we are to that number of people. And I also don't know that I would want everybody to like alternative music anyway. Then we would have to have another alternative.
07/26/06 08:02:05
Scott Brookman Interview by Bryan Baker (1992)
CATEGORY: interview
Scott Brookman has been active the home recording scene for many years, producing a body of tapes that characterize an immediately identifiable sound that is all his own. This interview has been through several renditions, and was finally completed via e-mail, along with the news of his first vinyl release (on Twee Kitten).
( comments)
How long have you been recording?
My four-track recording goes back probably to at least to 1984 , perhaps as early as '82. I don't remember a time that I did much writing without some means of recording.
I had a sound-on-sound reel to reel in the early 80's which was used to record my first band The Poisonous Sewer Fish and my own projects. Before that my friend, Joey Cheatham, and I experimented with the most primitive form of overdubbing: Taping two tracks on a typical stereo cassette deck, then playing the result back loudly over speakers while playing something else and taping the whole mess on another tape deck. If you repeat this process about ten times, you get a weird "distance" and "depth" that is pretty cool sounding. (The crudest forms are often the most satisfying.) Joey and I did this obnoxious form of home-taping one summer in junior high school just for our enjoyment, while my parents were gone to the beach, so this earliest memory of home-taping occured in 1979 or '78.
It must be said that co-Fish mate, Joey Cheatham, was in those days an absolute master at editing sounds together on tape. He had this aged Wallensach tape deck made by 3M, and would put together these wild tapes of the band's songs and various noises, combined with Joey's sound effects and illegal wire-tapping tapes. Joey definitely deserves credit for my eventual turn toward solo home-taping. Short answer: I've been recording for fifteen years! Arrrgghhhhh!!
Tell us about the first song you recorded.
My first song was a spontaneous piece of nonsense I uttered as a kid: "All of the people in Indonesia have....amnesia." It actually has a tune, so it counts as a song. I may do something with this on my next tape. Stay tuned. After that, it was many years before I wrote any material worthy of the term "song," spring 1986 to be exact. I started writing for no particular reason. I was drawn to it. I am compelled to do it. I had been playing music for years, so eventually by the mid-80's the "tune center" in my brain switched on.
I wrote four or five songs right before I started a band (with Rob Woodrum and Jay Lugar ) called The Apes of Wrath. This was the first material I had any confidence in. Strangely, none of it has appeared on tapes for the general public. There was a non-musical reunion of all three members of the Apes of Wrath in my kitchen in September, but I'm sure no one would care about that (though it might yield wacky photos). Funnyman Jay Lugar drums for Bad Tequila Experience here in Richmond. Many of their songs are funny, so they're okay by me. Afro wigs are occasionally worn. Rob has given up the guitar.
What songwriters influence your writing?
The Beatles (Macca more than Lennon, Harrison more than Starkey), Ray Davies, Brian Wilson, XTC's Moulding and Partridge, and lately, Burt Bacharach and the poppier Todd Rundgren.
McCartney is the master of the "long melody," the melody line that goes on, twisting and turning without repeating. He's often faulted for his lyrics, but what difference does that make in pop music?
I share the most musically with Ray Davies probably, and this is something that few reviews have ever picked up. The odd jazzy guitar chords, the shuffly beat, and the essentially conservative, wry commentary of the lyrics. There's a provincial, small towny voice to many of his lyrics. This is true of my songs as well.
Lately, I'm more interested in the way Brian Wilson arranged his songs than the obvious reason for my liking his music: the harmony. With my recent switch to writing on the keyboard I'm more influenced by Colin Moulding (a grossly underrated writer, next to the more obvious AP), the Todd Rundgren pop material, and the master himself, Burt Bacharach. 10cc is also more and more of an influence.
How about Syd Barrett? A song like "Bike" reminds me of your approach to songwriting. Or Robyn Hitchcock -- a bit more stream of consciousness I guess, but there are some similarities.
I like a loopy, clunky feel and these two are practioners par excellence of that. I've tried to write like Barrett several times, but it never worked. Barrett has the worst sense of rhythm of any recorded artist. I can imagine the torture endured by The Pink Floyd trying to perform with him. Yikes. This helps to make him distinctive, however. He's another essentially conservative, slice-of-life writer within the extreme context of psychedelia. So I'm drawn to him as well as Davies and Robyn Hitchcock for similar reasons. Though Davies is not, these other two are cursed with the compulsion toward acts of self-sabotage in their songs. It's going along well, then, boom, the act of weirdness, that stops it from being taken seriously. They're both quite capable of interesting melodies, but pretty often--though less so recently with Hitchcock--this is sacrificed to the joke. I try not to do that anymore. It's less appealing as an adult than it was at 16. The Poisonous Sewer Fish did Floyd-style noise jams with effects. We sucked at it.
You've mentioned your attraction to music from the 70's before.
Yeah, I'm influenced by the great falsetto singers in the 70's, something that crossed racial and stylistic boundaries: from Marvin Gaye and scads of soul groups like the Spinners to Mick Jagger and Darryl Hall, many hit groups went into the falsetto range. I listened to the radio constantly in the 70's, so any hit is an influence on some level.
Or Elton John, Leo Sayer, Henry Gross (remember "Shannon"?). God, everyone sang falsetto in the 70's. Kiss sang falsetto in e 70's!
Right. All these guys used falsetto. Anyone remember the Second City TV parody of the Bee Gees -- the shriekingest falsettos of 'em all? The fake song was something like "...singing songs in very high voices." So, it was a phenomenon that folks took notice of while it was happening. I remember "Shannon" (one of any number of hits that owe a lot to Brian Wilson's style). In fact, I just added Henry Gross' lp to my collection this year. There were also pop singers who went down to an almost sub-bass range. Barry White is the obvious example.
It's strange that you mention Robyn Hitchcock's tendancy to sacrifice the song for a joke because many of your songs carry a large dose of humor in them.
In varying degrees of subtlety, all my songs are funny. At least as much as music, I'm influenced by comedy. As a kid, it was comedy that held my group of friends together, even moreso than common musical bonds. There was a definite competition to be the funniest that is still in place among the existing members of that group. I remember that we wouldn't even be friends with someone who wasn't funny! What a load of jerks we were. But...damned funny. The first record I remember listening to on my Close-N-Play as a wee one in the sixties was by Jonathan Winters.
Randy Newman's gotta rank up there on the "funny" scale; but much of his stuff is also quite disturbing. It's often been said about comedians that they play great dramatic roles because of their understading of comedy. The same things goes for songwriters, I suppose. . .
Disturbing and depressing. I have a few of his records, but never listen to them. The contrast between the up feel of his satire and the dark sadness and sentimentality of the other songs makes listening impossible.
I find it weird that, though for instance, stand-up comedy is incredibly popular now, we usually don't value comedy the way we do "serious" writing. Even in Newman's case, he's "just" a satirist, despite the serious material. Few among the great unwashed would argue for his place alongside, say, Bruce Springsteen. We don't respect comedy as much, nor do we analyze it much. But writing comedy is a real gift. I've started collecting comedy LPs (talk about a category that no one cares about!) I've found some pretty weird stuff. Mort Sahl records are very good. Rolf Harris rules. Even Flanders and Swann raise a dry smile. I'd kill for all those Peter Cook/Dudley Moore records ("LS Bumblebee" is great), and I want to hear more by master parodist Neil Innes. In addition to the great music, the British Invasion was a comedy revolution. Most of the better remembered bands had a sense of humor. All of the Beatles are very funny. There's a goofy, antic, absurd type of humor, full of irrevence, but not to the point of offense, that provided a nice warm context for the music of the era. Deflating the pompous was the name of the game, but it was done in good fun usually. Many of the funnymen of the era remained themselves self-deprecating. Where are those golden days of yore, my friends?
Is music all about "songs," or does performance count?
For some reason, no one wants to give writers the full credit they deserve. This is true in the movies, it's true in music. Music is almost all about the song. If someone gives a bad performance, the song stills exists in its ideal state. It's not like a crappy gig can "ruin" a song. There's stacks and stacks of great songs that have never been done right, but that says nothing bad about the songs, just the performances. For instance, Roy Wood, the main writer in The Move, wrote some fine sixties pop songs, but his voice, to me anyway, is like a straight pin in the spinal cord. Singers more than anything else ruin performances. I can't listen to Steve Marriot of the Small Faces, music I'm "supposed to" like.
I think that non-writers, most of the listening public, can't, however, tell the difference, so the performance has to be great to impress them. While you can't make a bad song great through performance, you can certainly make so-so material into something very good, very entertaining. Tuck in those flaws. Jeff Lynne is a master at this. Some of the later ELO hits ("Don't Bring Me Down" and after) just, well, there's nothing much to them, not much music, if you know what I mean. BUT they were big hits because of his clever arrangements. There are certainly ELO records that I like the sound of, but his sound after about 1980 is dreadful. I'm sorry to read that he'll be producing McCartney's next one.
What's an example of the perfect song?
"Penny Lane" is a perfect song. It is pretty simple, not overly cluttered arrangement (which it might've been coming in the psychedelic era), great long-line melody, there are challenging brief sections that are just clever enough, the music and lyric are bouncy, yet wistful. It's classy but not prententious. I could go on and on.
The trouble with perfect songs is that they become annoying because they've been labelled "perfect" or "classic." This is true of a whole generation of fine pop songs from the big band era. Jazz musicians and instrumentalists have ruined them through over use. Who can hear "Night and Day" or "A Night in Tunisia" objectively after thousands and thousands of performances and recordings? It's true of McCartney's "Yesterday." I'd rather muck out my leaky basement than hear it, and I'm one of his biggest fans. It is hard to be objective about such material, but again it's the performances, not the song that are problematic.
Do you like collaborating with other musicians?
Once I discovered I could "do it all" on a 4-track I stopped bothering with others. While this may've led to self-discovery, it probably has also crippled me in other ways. I've played with a drummer this year, and that was fun and led to some arrangement ideas I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. As far as writing with someone else, I never really have. My oldest musician/writer friend, Ashley Bell, and I used to, as kids, have a "competition" to see who could write the best songs, but we never wrote anything together. I miss that competition.
Maybe the hometaper scene needs to put Greg Gray (found appearing on numberous Don Campau, Dino DiMuro, etc., hometaper releases) on a retainer so he can just go around playing drums for all of us! Why is it so hard to find drummers to record with? I've had the same trouble.
Theory: maybe fewer drummers are songwriters and consider themselves accompanists instead. They'd have less invested ego-wise in home recording. As a teen a few odd drummers prejudiced me toward them. Of course, not having a regular drummer right now is the only thing keeping me from greater exposure in the pop underground. If any pop drummer out there with an ADAT XT reads this please....get in touch. We can try collaborating through the US Mail.
How did you get started on the Internet?
I found a few opportunities simply by cruising the "recreational" and "alternative" talk and newsgroups. Sometimes college radio d.j.s will actually write in to these groups and specifically call for DIY stuff and unsigned band demos to play on their shows. I've sent tapes to a few of these. Also, with less frequency, someone will want tapes to review for a fanzine. I guess the best way to get started is to just look for subscription addresses for talk/news groups that look interesting to you. There's lots about music. The best way to find anything on the net is to just do a few searches from online search engines and you'll probably find something.
A couple years ago you got some media attention related to the Independent Underground Music Association (IUMA). You were mentioned in Details and Rolling Stone among others. Now it's two years later -- did anything come out of it?
While it was wild to think that something I taped in my parents' house in Salem, Va., could even be mentioned in two national, glossy magazines, there has been no further coverage by the slick media. The most pathetic, needy thing I did was send the Details writer, Michael Goldberg, A National Treasure to review on a now-defunct music site. No response. No review. The most disappointing thing is that IUMA didn't even ask me to submit new material for their small label, Offline or Online, whatever it is.
I've had no contact with IUMA for probably a year and a half. I gave up trying to get a response from them through email. I kept being put off into obvious games of "bad cop/good cop," where a message was forwarded to an underling and then, guess what, no response from the underling? Uh, huh. Still, every few months it seems a stranger sends me email for info on A National Treasure, or even a check for a copy due to my presence on IUMA.
In retrospect it really didn't add anything to my life. Just a big tease.
Do you think IUMA-like organizations/activities will be important to DIY recording artists?
This won't have any impact on home-taping other than an extra "community" for those already involved or inclined to become involved. The industry will not become interested because of this. Though IUMA started as a place for the little guy, quickly it dissolved into just another commercial enterprise. Other music sites think they are giving "up and comers" a shot--Radio HK, for instance--but they strongly prefer playing alternative crap that's about to be signed, blah, blah. They're not any more interested in the creative person who sits at home than WEA is. The days of the net as "people's medium" are already over. There will be continued room for sites like Gajoob's, but none of these will achieve industry interest in a real way. I'm sick to death of the Internet. Frankly, I can already see it levelling off, if you know what I mean.
The IUMA thing always tasted wrong to me. I understand it's like $250 a year or something for a band to have something on IUMA? There have been a whole lot of organizations charging artists to put their work in a national forum, but (despite the fact that a few artists have been successful on IUMA) it rarely has any substantial success for most individual artists. Sort of the same way with all these people offering to put your music on a CD with other unsigned artists for "only" $200. I really can't see it working to get people "signed."
The analogy to the CD scam is dead on. I've been approached by those too in the last few years. I get those offers, questionable management and promotion offers, and even press-your-own-CD info that seems a little iffy. I can't see people getting signed because of music sites on the 'net. After all, for every home-taper musician who's on a site that the industry could be interested in, there's an "up and comer" who plays "live" every night of the year who also has net representation.
I don't think the CD marketing things are necessarily a scam.
Well, to me they're a scam in the sense that you don't get out of it what you're promised. There's no way that paying to be on a comp can work out. Buy another rackmountable effect instead. Or one third of a good mic. I have a really repetitive folk song, "Hollywood Song Jubilee," about the various dubious offers that musicians get in the mail.
But if you're just looking to get some exposure, maybe you just want to have something on a CD and don't want to mortgage your house, there are worse places you can spend $200. Plus you get to ride on their promotion wagon for a little while. In my opinion, the CD things are just like anything else -- including IUMA, TAXI and any music compilation that GAJOOB or anyone else might produce -- there's a place for them, just don't get caught up in the hype of having a sure thing. There really is no such thing as a sure thing.
Speaking of having no sure things, what keeps you going, still sending stuff to labels and whatnot? Do you see any possibility for a home recording artist to have a successful recording career? Without touring?
Well, keeping going or giving it up isn't an issue. I believe that I was put on the planet to write songs. I have no other skills. I have yet to get together a new "pro-sound with real drummer" demo. That's a major disappointment for this year. When I do I'll be shopping it around to the pop labels that are springing up. [I might have a deal with Twee Kitten, a small, small pop label in Southern California, to do a 45". I'll put the screws on this guy soon to let me know and maybe Gajoob can have "the big scoop" that every kid in America is waiting to hear.]
I've never understood why companies aren't more interested in the home recording artists. It's not like alternative music sounds good, or is even very "professional." The popularity of that crap proves that people will buy anything promoted as "cool." Who does the promoting? The labels! To me, the home recording artist is an incredible bargain. No recording costs. Just post-production clean up, pressing and packaging, and some promotion. What gives? Touring is for the professional musician who wants to make a living from playing music. To me, this and the writing and recording and having a record out have nothing to do with each other. The major labels don't see it that way. I think, though, that smaller labels don't care, and they are who I'll be shooting for. The record industry is only interested in those who devote the whole lives to "making it" in music. Hometapers do not fit in to that category.
Scott is also on the web at http://www.scottbrookman.com.
07/27/06 06:30:06
Joe Newman Interview (by Dino DiMuro, 1987)
CATEGORY: interview
The following interview, conducted by Dino DiMuro, took place in two parts on July 11, and July 13, 1987.
( comments)
(to Joe's Machine): Hey Joe, this is Dino. What are you doin'? (Laughs)
Hi, Dino.
Hi, guy!
What's up, man?
You screen your calls, huh? (Laughs)
Usually, yeah. I've been getting a lot of harasssing phone calls lately, so....
Why?
Some guy called.... well, about 2 months ago I had a message on there with Hitler giving a speech, and then I said, "Hi, I've gone to the Pat Robertson youth rally," and apparently that really pissed somebody off, and they haven't layed off since. So I've got a trace on the phone now.
Really?
Yeah, but the cops want about 30 calls before they're willing to go prosecute.
Damn. And then the other alternative is to change your number, right? And that's a hassle.
Yeah, I thought about that. Well, it's not a big hassle, what I've done for this, but then I thought, "Well, goddamnit, I hate these motherfuckers, and I want them caught." (Laughs). So I'm going through all the bureaucratic swill that's necessary, and the police, of course, don't give a flying fuck, so.... so anyway, that's why I screen my calls.
Well, I wonder who would have called you in the first place, that that would have pissed them off?
That's what I'm wondering, 'cause the voice isn't recognizable, and either it's someone who sells things by the phone, or someone who just dialed the wrong number... but if they dialed the wrong number they wouldn't have known what number it was, so.... I really don't know, but I would really like to find out.
(DINO DISCUSSES SETTING UP THE INTERVIEW)
The police brutality song is just, I think that's just brilliant....
Well, lately, that's really been hitting home with me. A couple weeks ago some friends of mine were playing at a club here in town, and they came out of the club after they played, and there were what appeared to be prostitutes across the street. And so they just sat down by the club and were watching for a while, and these guys were walking by, and these prostitutes were confronting them, trying to get them to, you know, go for it, and eventually one of them hit. And a van popped open, the cops jumped out, handcuffed the guy, they videotaped him, threw him in the van, hauled him away, and they set up for the next sucker.
Oh, it was a set-up, then.
Yeah, it's fucking entrapment! So I wrote really hostile letters to the city council, the vice squad sergeant... I'm probably on a shit list now, but....
Yeah, in a file somewhere.
The cops in Austin are really vile. Really fucking vile. So, that's what inspired that.
Couldn't be any worse than the LAPD. I think we have the most "shot" people here; we have much more than New York, which doesn't make sense. I was working on a film once, and I had a cop pull a gun on us; a young guy, he was all freaked out.
You just have to realize that the kind of person who'd want to be a cop is the kind of person who likes to beat up freshmen in gym class, so that's what you get.
Did you ever get that thing I sent you about Lynda Barry?
Oh yeah! It was great! I'm really bad about... I think people who write me must think I'm a huge asshole....
Oh, I'm the same way, because there's just not time. It's hard to get around to everything.
When I first started in the mail cassette thing, I would mail to someone like Peter Catham, and I'd send him a cassette, and a great letter, and all this material, and not hear from him... and I thought he was the biggest asshole who ever walked the face of the earth, and I told people he was an asshole, and... 2 1/2, 3 years later, here I am doing the same thing, it takes me 3 months to get around to someone.
I get a few every now and then, and sometimes they send me things that are just so bad, really bad shit.
(DISCUSSION ABOUT THE NEW TAPE)
I like the second one (PLASTIC CONTAINERS RETAIN ODORS) better, I think...
Yeah, I probably overall like the second one the best of the 3...
Yeah, I think it's a better tape, it's just.... edited better, I think the music's better... I think people will like (the new tape) better. People didn't like the last one for shit. Especially around here, nobody really gave a fuck.
Really? I think this one is a little nastier than the other one, I thought people would like the last one better because the balance is better.
Well, I like Containers because I like the instrumental music I wrote, I was proud of that. This one, there's nothing on it that I think is compositionally wonderful.
Not even "Hitler Sandwich"?
(Pause) "Sandwich for Adolph"?
Yeah, yeah.
That's just a little barroom ditty-sounding kind of thing, it's nothing really involved. But people usually like toilet humor, that's what gets them off, usually. That's what they latch onto quickest.
I think the structure of the cop song is just gorgeous, though; especially right after the phone call... I love that sound anyway, going from phone call to some good, hard chords.
Yeah, I thought that was really cliche, but I did it anyway.
Oh, it's fun! But you know that I do it too (Laughs).
Oh, everybody does! Well, I guess the first time I heard it was on We're Only In It For the Money, and... I can't remember any out before then that did that.
Yeah, well that was a pivotal record for me, I'm sure it was for you.
(DISCUSSION ABOUT ZAPPA)
See, I guess I'd be a purist, because in 1969 or so, I'd been listening to Tiny Tim...
Yeah, I've got some Tiny Tim records. You listen to that?
Oh, he was my guy!
God Bless Tiny Tim. Yeah, it's a great record. You know what the cool song is? "Ever Since You Told Me That You Love Me (I'm a Nut)."
Yeah! (Laughs)
Great song! (Laughs). That's classic shit.
I like the one on the second album about the ice caps melting.
Yeah! Yeah, that's a good one. I've got both those records. I haven't listened to those in a while, I'll have to get those out.
But that was about the extent of my musical sophistication...
You were way ahead of me!
(Sputters) And also the Beatles. And then in a bargain bin, in a Thrifty, there was Only Money, and as it turned out, it was one of the censored discs they pressed.
"I'll love the police as they kick the shit out of me..."?
Yeah, right. That was edited out, and uh... the story was that MGM pressed a whole bunch of 'em that way, and then he (Zappa) came in and listened to a test pressing and he went, "What the hell are you doing?" And he made them put all (the edits) back, and as far as he knew, that version never went out. But what they did was, they made cut-outs of that version. So I brought this record home and I was blown away by it anyway, but at the same time, I thought: "What's all this stuff about the Mothers being dirty? I don't hear anything on it..." So then, years later when I bought another copy, I was thinking, "What the hell's all that?" Tons of stuff on there! And they did really stupid things....
MGM really fucked with him.
Yeah, they took out a line: "I still remember Mama with her apron and her pad..." What for?!
Who's got the fucked-up mind? When Mike Curb took over at MGM, he took over a lot of the production and shit, he said he was going to "...get rid of all the drug-influenced groups," like the Velvet Underground and the Mothers. The Mothers were as far from drug influenced as... well, at least Zappa is; the rest of the band was definitely drug influenced.
(INTERVIEW CHANGES DIRECTION TO RECORDING)
Are you still using your same 4-track cassette system?
Yeah, I've still got the same...
How the fuck do you get such a great sound then?
Well, I don't use microphones very much. And if I do...
Well, how do you get the vocals in there? It sounds to me like you've got 12 or 15 tracks.
Well, what I do normally is, I've got a sequencer; that helps a lot. So I sequence all the keyboards and drums, and then record that onto two tracks, and while I'm doing that I might record a guitar part. So there's all that on two tracks. And then I've got two tracks left over; so I can do vocals there. If I need to do some background vocals, I'll bounce between those two tracks. So I get 4 tracks filled up, then I dump that off to another DBX tape deck. And then I use that tape with 2 more blank tracks. I usually just do one dump. Some songs I don't do any, but I try to hold it to just one.
And what do you get from Dwain (of YU)?
He's got a PCM. It allows me to get a digital mixdown, so I can take it to the mastering place and have them run 'em off. All a PCM does is, you run your signal into it, and it creates a digital signal, and stores it on videotape. And that's what the mastering studio here in town likes to get it on. Plus, it's good to have a digital copy of your stuff, so it doesn't degrade.
Last time, didn't you use his sampler, and stuff like that?
All I used from him last time was... he had this "Aural Exciter"... kinda adds some high end, artificially. But the problem with it is, if you use too much, it starts to add a lot of hiss. It enhances your tape hiss. So it's really good if you're running direct into the tape deck, but if you're trying to do something off the tape, it tends to take your tape hiss and exaggerate it, so...
Well, you must have a sampling keyboard, right?
Yeah, I've got a Mirage.
Oh, well that explains it. And didn't he steal one of your noises and use it on Art & Guns? A honk, or something?
He may have. We traded some samples. That's possible. I don't know if he did or not. He has more stuff than I do. I think we used the same orchestral hit.
Is there acutally a YU band, or is it just him?
It's mostly him. He's got 2 guys that come in and help out occasionally. But he's got all the stuff in his house. It's a nice recording studio.
So there are actually 3 guys then.
Yeah. One of them is his brother.
Oh, I see. I figured it was... like I used to pretend I was a band, and I thought that's what he was doing.
I just think he wants the anonymity, or whatever.
Uh huh. 'Cause I wrote to him and said: "Are you really a band?" And he said, "Yeah. That's our picture on the cover of Illusion of Control. (It was a drawing).
(Laughs). Yeah, I don't think he likes to... I put his name on the last tape, and he didn't like that. He just wanted me to put YU on this one, so... I just called (myself) "The Rudy Schwartz Project"... it's not like I want to be known by Rudy Schwartz, it's just a dumb name, and... I hate "Project," when someone calls a band a "Project."
I thought you were doing an Alan Parsons thing.
Yeah, that's one example. I just think it's real pompous, so...
It's hard to know, in reviewing and stuff, I tend to say "group" instead of just saying "Joe Newman"... I think it's confusing to people.
It doesn't matter. People do it both ways. I don't really care.
Did you get any response from the review?
Yeah, I get a few letters that come trickling in. It's been pretty underwhelming.
Do they ever write you back and say, "I liked it"?
Yeah, occasionally. (Pause). Every now and then. (Pause). Real rarely. (Laughs).
Last time I talked to you, you were really checking out distribution. Did you ever...
Yeah, I've got a record company in Britain; they wanted to hear Bowling For Appliances. They said they liked the first two, but they wanted to hear this one, and if there's enough stuff on the three of them that they want to make an album, they'll do it. They don't have a lot of money. It's a label that R. Stevie Moore was on.
How many would they press? About 5000?
We haven't gone to that level of detail; I'm just hoping they want to do it.
(A CB RADIO PARTIALLY OBITERATES CONVERSATION)
When I was in L.A., I looked in the phone book, and Steve Vai was there, so I called him. He was real friendly. Real tolerant. (Laughs) I talked to him for about half an hour.....
This whole thing (Contragate, Reagan, the adulation of Oliver North) is just proof that democracy may not be a valid form of government. It's really scary. Really fucked up.
PT. 2 -- July 13, 1987
Tell me about your distribution system as it stands now.
Well, as it stands, I do it all myself. If anyone ever orders a tape, then I put them on a mailing list; they get a card notifying them that a new one's coming out. And I've distributed to a few record stores here in Austin.
The cards you send out... are they Xeroxed cards?
Yeah, it's just Xeroxed onto some cardboard, and I cut 'em up and mail 'em. Low budget.
How big is your mailing list?
(Laughs). Oh, probably about 25 people.
When I talked to you after the first tape, you said at the time you'd sold a hundered of them.
No no, that's not true. I had probably sold 50 and given away 50.
Okay, right. So there were a hundered of them out there.
Yeah, there's probably about 200 out there now.
Well, that's huge! Is it the same for the next two?
No, I would guess... I don't keep real strict statistics on this, but I would guess Plastic Containers is around 120, and the new one is just a few.
So why did the first one hit 200?
Because I gave a lot of them away. (Laughs).
Was it just the initial thrill of making your first tape?
Plus, I went against my better judgement and actually thought that maybe I could get a record deal or something. So I distributed quite a few to record companies... about 40.
Were they big companies?
Rarely. I think the biggest one was IRS. Most of the companies didn't even respond. Usually I got a form letter, and occasionally I would get a personal response, but not that often. Most of them didn't even respond. I got a personal response from Cunieform, they acutally scribbled some comments on the paper. They're out of Wheaton, Maryland, and they've got a distribution thing called Wayside Music. They handle really good stuff. And I got a letter from Alligator Records, which is really absurd... they're a Blues label. They wrote back and sent me a Professor Longhair record and told me to get lost... they were very nice about it.
And what were the form letters like?
They're typically something that sounds extremely canned, like: "While we feel your recording has merit, it doesn't fit into our current needs." Or else it's a check-off-the-box kind of deal where there's different excuses, and they check off one or two and send it back. I did get two responses from companies in Britain: both of them said they wanted to use songs on sampler albums, and one of those two mentioned the possibility of a whole album, but those things are still pending. I'm not holding my breath. If they wanted to use some of the stuff on Moslem Beach Party I would want to try and re-do the songs, because I'm not real happy with the fidelity of a lot of that tape. If they're willing to put an album out, I'd go spend the money to mix it down digitally.
Did they tell you what they liked off the first two tapes?
One company wanted to use "Hey Darling, Can I Buy You a Taco?" And the other one wanted to use "You Can Become a Republican Too." Other than that, they didn't get specific.
What kind of public reaction have you gotten over the 3 tapes?
Usually favorable, but that's only because, if somebody didn't like it, I don't think they'd bother to write.
Well, you mentioned that "locally," nobody really liked the second tape...
A few people liked it, it's just that people seem to like Moslem Beach Party; particularly "Kill For God." That's my "Free Bird," I guess. Neither of the tapes was a local "phenom" or anything; it's still relatively unknown. The local media has ignored me entirely. There's one record store here in town that sold quite a few Moslems; they've been really good. They actually put something out to let people know it's there. The other stores just stick it back on the rack, and nobody ever sees it, so nobody ever buys it.
Do you get any reaction from store sales? Do people write to you who've bought 'em?
Rarely. I've got a couple letters locally. They usually hear the tape, and want to come over and use my equipment.
Have you gotten any press in Austin at all?
Glitch records, a local record label, has a little newsletter. They mentioned me once. They mentioned that I'd been interviewed in Damp magazine.
Do you find that you play to the public a little bit? Do you take the comments that you get from a previous tape and use those as you're making a new one?
I'd like to think not. A lot of the songs on the new tape were actually written before Plastic Containers even came out. I think what I do is just produce the stuff as it comes to me, and if it happens to be stupid, and people find it entertaining, then great. But it's not like I'm aiming at it. Maybe subconsciously. Of course I care what people think about it, it's good for the ego to have a bunch of people tell me it's good, but... at the same time, I do like the second tape a lot more. I'm sure there are people who would like every song to sound like "Kill For God." I think it'd be boring. Most people have a very short attention span: they don't want to hear instrumental music, for instance. Most people aren't interested in that because there are no words to listen to. They're really not interested in music anyway. In Austin, music is consumed as a social event; it's not a music event. It serves as a reason to go out and socialize, and show people your new clothes. I'm not saying there aren't poseurs in Los Angeles or San Francisco or any other city. Maybe it's just that I haven't found the right audience in Austin.
Back to the press for a minute... didn't you have a comment on your Sound Choice review on the sleeve of Plastic Containers? (THANKS TO GEORGE PARSONS FOR THE EXPRESSION, "ZAPPA-STYLED TOILET HUMOR.)
Yeah. I wasn't pissed off by the review; I have a lot of respect for Frank Zappa, and I took it as a compliment. But a lot of the alleged reviewers in these magazines tend to think it's hip to take a back-handed slap at Frank Zappa, apparently because he's made a lot of money. I'm sure they'd say it's because of his childish lyrics, but I think it's because they resent him for having succeeded. And also, some liberals resent him because of his views on the labor movement and the women's movement. And I think the real reason they resent him deep down is that his IQ is twice as high as theirs is, and he has much greater compositional skill than they could ever hope to have. I hold Zappa very reverently, and I don't really give a fuck what anybody thinks of that.
Are there any other magazines you've been reviewed in?
CMJ New Music Review has been really nice to me. The editor of that magazine named Plastic Containers the 10th best album of 1986. It was right on there with Bruce Springsteen and REM. I was amazed as hell. I about shit. Scott Byron; he also wrote about me in Village Voice in the music supplement. He's a real good guy.
You obviously have some keyboard training...
No, very little.
Can you tell me your history in music?
My history in music is: in 4th grade I was a big Hank Williams fan... he was my idol... and my parents got me a guitar, and started learning to play G chords on it. I continued playing chords on the guitar until about Junior High School; everyone started calling me "Counry Joe." That soon evolved into "Cunt Joe." So I got mad and quit playing the guitar. And then in college I picked it up again... that was kind of off and on. Then I moved to Houston when I got out of college, and didn't play for two years. Then I moved to Austin, and everybody was in a band, so in order to "enter a Social Clique," I picked up my guitar again, and I joined a band called The Politicians. This was an angry, dirge-like band. Actually, 3 songs from the Politicians were on Moslem Beach Party. They were "Christmas Time is for Assholes," "Song of the Birds" and "Coathangerman." We stayed together for about a year, and then everybody hated each other, and we broke up. They've got a new band now, and they're wonderful, and I highly recommend them.
Did you play those songs pretty much as they appear on the tape, or were the arrangements really different?
In most cases, the arrangements were less involved, just because it's impossible to get 4 people to do that, reliably. "Coathangerman" was pretty close, though. We actually did the Michael Jackson part; we were always real proud of that. But we weren't very tight -- you wouldn't want to call us a tight band, I don't think. We were pretty sloppy, but we usually offended enough people to make it worthwhile.
When did you pick up the keyboards?
I never really did. If I had to sit down and play something, if it wasn't just Doo-wop piano triplets, I really couldn't do anything. Most of keyboard parts on tapes, all the hard parts, are done with a sequencer. Occasionally I'll do something "live" if it's only one-handed and not very fast... then I can do it. But I'm not much of a keyboard player. I really have very little talent. I'm not a good guitar player either: I can't play lead for shit... I can strum chords and [Zappa-like voice] "...sing as I play. I can dance, I can..."
"...make merry fun all over the stage."
Yeah. Picking and strumming, that kind of shit, I can do that. Sometimes it takes 50 takes. (Laughs).
(JOE'S FAVORITE ZAPPA ALBUM IS "UNCLE MEAT")
This sounds like a Debbie Jaffee interview now, but... do you have any "Manifesto" for the Rudy Schwartz Project?
(Laughs). Do I have a Manifesto?
Do you have any ultimate goal in mind? Even if it's as crass as wanting to be a big, famous star?
I really don't think I'd enjoy being famous. I guess if I were to have my way, I'd like to be able to write music for a living, but that doesn't look very possible, given my taste in music. So it looks like I'll be stuck with my day job. I am working with someone in Boston right now, they want me to write music for corporate slide shows.
That's right up your alley!
Yeah, that's what I thought when I got the letter, but this woman actually wrote me and so... that's up in the air, but I might be getting paid for music here eventually, ridiculous as it seems. I doubt if they'll want my normal kind of stuff though.
When you say "write music," do you physically know how to write music on paper?
Yeah. Usually my retention isn't that good, so I have to get out the book to help me, but... like when Kelly, who played saxophone on the first 2 tapes, comes in, I have to write it out for him. "Kill For God" was all arranged and written out before he came in and recorded the sax parts.
Where did you pick up that knowledge?
Pretty much just from reading it in books; I took the normal music in High School, where they make everybody sing "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," but I never took any formal music training. I just picked it up out of curiosity over the years. I've envisioned writing out lots of things for lots of horns, and trying to come up with some very complex instrumental music, but I keep having nightmares about spending months working on one piece of music, and then having a bunch of derelicts come in and not show up on time, and inevitably it would never happen just because... counting on one person to show up is bad enough - but counting on ten people is impossible. So I've never gotten around to it, just because I don't want to be disappointed.
Do you have an insatiable need to create? Is that what drives you?
I don't know what it is. I seems weird that someone would use up most of their spare time doing something that they're not getting paid for... if the alternative is watching "Dynasty" then I would really rather be doing this.
Did you ever do any songwriting before you made your first tape?
The only song I wrote before the Rudy Schwartz Project was "Christmastime is For Assholes," and I never even considered myself a songwriter because, if I had written those songs, there's no way I could have had them played, and after being in two bands and dealing with the frustration of trying to get drug addicts to play music, I just figured, "Why not buy a 4-track and try and do it myself?" I really had no idea if I would be able to write music when I bought it; I just figured, shit, I'll just go buy it and see what happens. And then, sure enough, I started thinking of things. It's just a matter of, instead of taking your 3 hours after work to watch television, you just have to sit down and try and think of musical ideas.
And when you did that, were you aware that there were other people across the country that were doing it?
No, I wasn't. There was one guy here in Austin who was selling a lot of tapes at the time, though. It could probably be argued that I would have never even marketed my tapes had it not been for him. The guy's name is Daniel Johnston, he's just got an album out with the Buttholes now. But he was selling his tapes around town, just tapes he made on a boom box, and he dumped them off onto Radio Shack cassettes, and he sold them in all the stores for two dollars. He was really the first one in Austin to do that. And I was close to the second, and now there's just dozens of bands. You go to the record stores and there's lots of local cassettes, and everybody's lost in the shuffle now.
Were his tapes good?
Some people think they're great, some people think they're ludicrous. I think he's an extremely gifted songwriter. The production technique is kind of lax, but given the economics of his situation, it's more than understandable. The first time I heard it, it reminded me of... um, if Dolly Parton was a bag lady, beating on a garbage can. His voice kinda sounded sped-up. And then he started playing between sets here at clubs in town; he'd just play a few songs with just him and an acoustic guitar. And people just really caught onto him; they loved him. He played for a few months and then the success got out of hand: this guy was known all over town, but he was working at McDonald's. I guess it just got the best of him, finally. He was at a Buttholes show, and someone gave him some acid, and he had a bad time of it, and he ended up in the state hospital. His parents came and took him back to West Virginia, and that's the last anyone's ever heard of him, I think. Hopefully he'll be back, but we don't know. A lot of bands around here play his songs... more than 10 bands, the Buttholes included.
So how did you run into Dwain (of YU)?
I read a review of Illusion of Control in Option, and it said it was reminiscient of Zappa and the Residents, and it said the guy lived in Austin, so I thought I should call this person. So I called him up, and eventually we got together. I see him every one or two months... usually to use each other's equipment or something. He lives a couple miles from me.
How did you figure out that Option was out there?
A friend of mine named Dave Cameron, who plays drums for Glass Eye, and used to play drums for Brave Combo... they're a polka band; they're extremely good... anyway, Dave showed me an issue of Option, and I'd never even realized that a magazine like that existed. I come from Missouri, which is kind of sheltered. And then I noticed that they had tape reviews, and I figured, "Well, when I get done recording these songs, I'll put a tape together, and send it to these magazines, and try and sell it around town, and see what happens." A lot of Moslem was done without the intention of ever putting it out; some of it sounds pretty crappy as a result. There's a lot of crappy editing, and hissing, and things going on. Someday maybe I can re-do those songs.
And put it out on CD.
Oh, yeah. I'm sure Warner Bros. will be real interested in it.
I want to ask you about your overall musical influences, and also who you like who's more or less on your level...
Well, this guy named Dino DiMuro...
(Laughs). Not him!
Really, your stuff and R. Stevie Moore's is the only stuff I've heard that really gets me off. I like Don Campau's "Pinata Party" a lot, I thought that was really good. But for the most part most of the tapes I get through the mail are shit. I don't want to print that, though! I'm just being candid.
Well, it's not like it hasn't been said before.
Yeah, that's true. A lot of people think, with some industrial noises and some fucking with the pause button for 40 minutes, they can put out a tape. I think that's boring as shit. I like James Hill's instrumental music a lot; I didn't like a lot of his lyrics. I like his trumpet playing a great deal; I wish he lived in Austin so I could get him to play on my tapes. There's a lot of stuff I heard on Don Campau's radio show ("No Pigeonholes," KKUP, Cuppertino) that I thought was good.
(ON THE OPENING OF MOSLEM BEACH PARTY)
The guy's name is Jamsheed Agahi who does the little Arabic chant. He's about as blasphemous an Iranian as you will find.
Was he saying all sorts of blasphemous stuff?
No, that was an authentic Moslem prayer. What these guys do is, they get up in the morning before other people get up, and yell this shit off the top of their roofs, and wake everybody up. And if you act indignant about it, that means you're blasphemous and you can be castrated at sunrise. He used to live in Iran during the Shah's regime so he has some fun stories to tell.
(BACK TO CASSETTE FAVORITES)
There was a song called "The perfect Tomato," by Ken Clinger - I thought that was a real good song. I like YU's stuff.
Some of the stuff I get is not bad, it just doesn't grab me by the balls and make me put it on over and over again, because I just haven't got time to be listening to stuff that I think is average. If it comes down to it, I'll put on Uncle Meat. (Laughs). I was kind of late finding Zappa and Beefheart. As I said, I was raised in Missouri, and in High School I listened to your typical "stadium schlock-rock." I liked Queen, and Styx, the most awful shit you can think of, just because there was nothing else available.
I thought Queen was allright.
Back in their fag period, I thought they were great. I think they really are effeminate guys, and I thought that Bohemian Rhapsody stuff was just a masterpiece in studio orchestration.
Did you like Queen II? I still like that.
Oh yeah, "Ogre Battle." It's cool shit, yeah. Most people just resent it because it's Queen, and I really can't blame them, but... there was some good shit going on, really interesting studio technique. I saw them live a couple times and thought they were just hammered shit live, but in the studio they were interesting. Once they got past their fag period and went into their leather period, then they started getting real obnoxious. But about that time I was in college, and people started playing Frank Zappa records for me. It didn't take long for me to convert. (Laughs). I went to the University of Missouri.
How long have you lived in Austin?
About 4 years, and I lived in Houston for 2 years after I graduated from college. I was 21 when I moved to Houston, and there was a lot more music available. There's a station called KPFT which is a sister station of KPFK, the Pacifica station. That station really exposed me to a lot of things I never heard before. Prior to that I'd never heard anything like the Dead Kennedys. The first Zappa record I bought was Chunga's Revenge, and I really liked that, so I bought all of them as quickly as I could. (Laughs). It was no small undertaking, but eventually I got them all.
You were even able to find the earlier records?
It took a while, but I finally got a hold of them. Now they're easier to find than they were then, because right then they were out of print, and it was just impossible to find one in decent shape.
Beefheart, the same thing?
Well, I learned about Beefheart through Zappa. I guess the first Beefheart album I had was Trout Mask Replica. It took me about 2 months to decide that I liked it. A lot of his stuff I don't like as much; he has some albums that sound like he was trying to sell records... but then he sort of had a rebirth with Bat Chain Puller and Doc at the Radar Station. Doc I would rank right in there with Trout Mask.
Yeah, it was the best batch yet!
Yeah, that's a brilliant record. Some of the lyrics on there just make me cream. (Laughs). By the time I was getting into Beefheart, it was almost by the time Ice Cream For Crow was coming out. I'm a real late comer. I come from a very strict Republican household, and bringing a Beatles record in the house was grounds for castration, practically. I wouldn't dare buy a Frank Zappa record, so I had to get off to college before I could listen to anything new, anyway.
Back onto Beefheart for a second: I was really depressed by his slide into "nice" music, so when he came back with Doc at the Radar Station, I was crying!
That's when you know you don't fit in!
Yeah! I would dance around the room to "Best Batch Yet" - it was like an orgasm!
I agree. The first time I heard that record, it was just, to me, a breakthrough. There's nothing else in the world like that.
Do (your parents) like your music?
They don't even know it exists. And I hope they never do.
That's too bad.
No, it's not. (Laughs). It just wouldn't serve any useful purpose for them to know.
So you never send them clippings or anything?
No, I don't tell them anything. I told them I was in a couple bands. They've threatened to come down and see us play, which would have been really disasterous. The second band I was in would have been really good, because it was fronted by two gay guys who dressed up like women, handed out marital aids, frozen meatloaf dinners to the audience, and they'd simulate oral sex with each other while we played surf music behind them. The band was called the Technicolor Yawns. We could've gone somewhere, but unfortunately everybody involved was too stoned, and we never got any motivation going. But we were getting good crowds. We even got to warm up for the Buttholes once, so that was a big thrill. But I'd rather not hurt my parents. I'm sure a lot of my lyrics would hurt them. I'd rather hurt other people. Other Republicans.
Do you think religion is inherently worthless, or do you just take offense at the purposes that it's been put to?
Well, for me it's worthless, but I think there are people that it's very valuable for. If there's someone who's very depressed and has very few reasons for living, if it makes them happy, I think it's a good thing. I just think it's sick that some people like to exploit that and make money on it, and that offends me. But religion, it could serve useful purposes, but right now I don't think it does. I think all religions are basically the same thing: they're all an addiction, they're all a drug... it's just another way to elude the truth. And if that makes someone happy, then I'm all for it; it's the same thing as someone who wants to smoke pot - if that makes 'em happy, then fine, I'm all for it.
You've had stuff about mostly fundamentalist religions & born-agains on your two tapes but then on your new tape, on "Nice Lawn, Asshole," you have lines like: "For God so loved you He severed both your legs in a car accident"
Yeah, I figured that would be misinterpreted. I'm not blaming God for anything in that song; I just think it's ridiculous for someone to get on television and say, "God has blessed us with higher income," and there's no scientific evidence to prove that God has given them anything, so in order to show how ridiculous it is for people to say that, I wrote those lyrics. It sounds pretty ridiculous to say God severed your legs in a car accident, because there's no evidence that God did that... it's just as logical as saying, "God gave us ten thousand dollars."
It didn't come across that way to me, because then you use the music to "Star of Wonder," which is about the birth of Christ, isn't it?
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people would find that very blasphemous, and would probably misinterpret it, but I don't really give a fuck. (Laughs).
Well, why did you put that particular music at that point, then?
Because it's religious music, and it fit well with the context of the song, musically. It fit two ways, so I thought I'd use it. It's not like I give this a lot of deep, profound thought, either. I don't really worry about people understanding what I'm doing, because even if it comes up and bites them on the ass, they probably still don't understand... even more importantly, they probably don't care. So I'm not going to worry about it.
Do you have as bleak a world-view as the song, "People Are Scum"?
It all depends on what day it is, and how recently I've watched the news. I think, in general, that song is disturbingly true. I didn't write those lyrics, but I agree with those words very much.
You delivered that vocal in a very Zappa-like monotone; I guess that was intentional.
It probably wasn't conscious, it was subconscious. At times I blatantly rip Zappa off, and other times I'm sure it just seeps in. I listen to his music an awful lot, so there's no way it's not gonna creep in. There are places where I've actually stolen lines from him, but nobody's noticed them yet.
In that song in particular, I could have sworn that you studied his voice inflections to get it perfect.
No. There was no conscious studying of any vocal inflections; that's just the way I felt like doing it. I think there's other parts of my stuff that sound more like Zappa than that.
What about the spoken part of "Asparagus Makes Your Urine Smell Funny"?
The syrupy, doo-woppy chord progression with the triplets: right there is a dead give-away for Ruben & The Jets. I like 50's vocal music a lot, but it's only because of Zappa that I started listening to that stuff.
But not the spoken part? You weren't going for a Zappa-like voice during the fade-out?
No, not really.
Well, that's interesting. I guess you're aware you have a Zappa-sounding voice anyway.
That's probably osmosis. I'll admit it, I just admire the hell out of the guy. If people think that's dumb, they can go fuck themselves, I don't really care, 'cause they probably admire someone who's a hell of a lot more worthless than Frank Zappa.
When I first got your tape, I thought: "Here's a guy who likes Zappa, realized he has a voice like Zappa, and utilized it."
I'm real flattered by that, 'cause I've never been told that. That's encouraging.
Is there anyone else who's influenced you?
I like Eric Dolphy a lot. There's a guy named Wilhem Breuker from Holland - he has a large Jazz band. He's influenced by Satie, Zappa, Duke Ellington, and different kinds of Eastern music, and polka music... he turns this all to Jazz; they're just hotter than hell. I think they're distributed by Rick Ballard Imports out of Berkeley. I like Mojo Nixon, I think he's cool. The Reverend Fred Lane is this guy from Tuscallosa, Alabama - he's got this record called "From the One Who Cut You" - I think they only printed 500 of them. It's one of the best albums I've ever heard. I think he's God. I liked the Dead Kennedys' first few records a lot; their last couple, I think, have been getting kind of boring.
How about Metal? Do you like any Metal at all?
No, I was more into that in High School. There's a group called the Mentors; they're the ones from the PMRC thing. I bought their record just because they were singled out as being as bad as it could get. I like that record a whole lot. Jeff Ling was reading the lyrics, and he said: "How bad can it get? Well..." He pulled out the Mentors and started reading this song about golden showers...
Do you listen to much classical music?
There's some Beethoven I like; I don't like his more popular things just because I've heard them too many times. I like Anton Webern's string quartets. I don't sit down and listen to a lot of classical music, I'm not trying to sound pompous. I despise fat lady opera music - that makes me wretch. Some the more modern dissonant stuff I like. I hate Aaron Copeland - I wish he had never lived.
Did you ever like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer?
Yeah, I went through that period.
I sort of ended up liking Copeland because of ELP... "Rodeo."
"Fanfare for the Common Man"?
Yeah.
Well, they pointed me in that direction, and I was repulsed. His music sounds like soundtracks for a John Wayne movie. It just bothers me, it just sounds too "American" and something James Watt could enjoy.
I think the John Wayne movies were inspired by Copeland.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it was the other way around. Maybe it's not his fault, but... that was my impression. Maybe I was being harsh when I said he should have never lived, that may be going too far. Ed Meese should have never lived - that's probably more appropriate. There's some Stravinsky stuff I think is okay. I usually like string quartets.
If you could set up the exact circumstances under which a person could hear your new tape, what would they be?
Well, I would prefer they not be talking to anybody. I would rather they be alone in a room with a reasonably good stereo; it doesn't have to high-fidelity to the max because my tapes aren't... I'd like the volume turned up to a reasonable level, so they can hear what's going on. I'd like people to pay attention to it before they judge it.
How about lighting?
(Incredulous) Lighting?! I would prefer to have them tied to the ceiling on a chandelier with a strobe light bouncing off it...
(Laughs). You know what I mean! I find that when the lights are on and I'm listening to something, my eyes tend to look at things in my room, so if I have something I really want to listen to, I turn the lights down.
Well then, in your case, I'd like to have the lights down.
(Laughs). But you don't...
No, I'm usually washing the dishes when I'm listening to music, so I have no room to talk... I usually don't have time to sit down and listen to music. If I really listen to something I might put on headphones, if I'm really serious.
Would you prefer that people use headphones for your music?
It depends on what song you're talking aobut. If I did a shitty job of mixing it, I'd rather they didn't. (Sweetly) Whatever comforts the listener.
Okay. Now here's the reverse of that question: how do you think your tapes are listened to? Do you think they're given a lot of attention?
No. I think people listen to them in the car while they're talking to other people. Or else, they play it while they're washing the dishes. I doubt if a lot of people sit and pay attention to it. I'm sure I pay a lot more attention to it than most other people.
(Laughs) Well, I would sure hope so! Do people ever say stuff to you that indicates they weren't really paying attention to the songs?
Uh huh. My girlfriend probably listens closely. Other than that, probably nobody. I have no right to expect people to devote 45 minutes of their lives to concentrating on what I do. Whether or not someone likes it... as trite as it sounds, the most important thing is if I like it. If someone else likes it, that flatters me; I'll admit it. I'm not crushed if they don't.
So you're basically doing this for yourself, and the distribution is sort of haphazard?
It's definitely half-assed. I guess ultimately I do it for myself, but obviously there's more to it than that, or I wouldn't even bother sending them out.
Short of a major-label record deal, how successful would you want to be?
I'd like to have creative control over everything, but I'd like to have other people handle the drudgework... but that's asking a lot. I'd want control over the packaging, the mixing, the editing, everything having to do with the quality of the product. But things like mailing out postcards, I'd rather not fuck with that.
Would you be happy with R. Stevie Moore's level of popularity?
I'd be amazed if that ever happened. I haven't really set any goals, because ultimately I couldn't meet them. The only goal I could set would be to make a living off of this, so I didn't have to have a job. but that's unreasonable, given today's political and economic climate. I'll just have to be content with this.
But when you started out, you had the goal of reaching a certain number of people you saw in Option Magazine, and you fulfilled that goal, right?
I really had no expectations at all. I sent those tapes out, and I didn't know what the hell to expect. I figured there'd either be a review saying it was absolute shit, or someone would like it... I just had no idea. I really wasn't familiar with most of what was distributed in the independent network, so I had nothing to compare it to.
And what about your mailing to record companies?
I expected exactly what I got. I was able to peg that one in advance. Actually, just the fact that two of them even expressed mild interest amazed the hell out of me.
So it was an exercise in futility, then?
Yes. It's like entering the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes. I gave a copy of my tape to Eric Drew Feldman (of Capt. Beefheart's Magic Band) when Snakefinger was here.
Yeah?
And... I never heard from him, either. (Laughs). But he was a nice guy, I liked him. It's a snowball's chance in hell, even if your music is good... the quality of music and the kind of music that gets produced are two different things. I was just thinking: "You gotta try." I figured I might as well at least give it a shot.
What's your regular job?
I'm an electrical engineer. I write computer-aided design software; right now I'm working on software that will automatically generate test patterns for digital circuits... and I would like to be doing something else. (Laughs).
Is it creative work?
In a sense. It requires some very abstract thinking, but it's just not the kind of creative thinking that I'm interested in. It pays better.
Is it a high-tech postition that required a lot schooling?
Yeah, a lot of people would consider it high-tech. A lot of people, particularly readers of magazines like Sound Choice, would consider me a sleaze-ball for doing it. But once again, they can go fuck themselves.
Did you do real well in school and get scholarships?
Yeah, I had a scholarship. I had a 3.6 grade-point average.
So, if you lived up here, you'd be the kind of guy working in Silicon Valley?
Not if I could help it.
On your new tape, did you fake the directory-assistance lady?
Yeah, that's my girlfriend.
Why didn't you just actually call L.A. directory assistance?
Because there was no way I could have recorded it; I didn't have the means to tap into the phone.
How did you record the fake one, then?
I did it through a parametric equalizer.
Wow! Good job! At first I thought it sounded real...
I'm glad. I thought is sounded kind of fake... I guess because I did it.
But then, there were two things: one, the "ring" didn't sound like an L.A. ring...
Yeah, that was a sample. I constructed a phone ring out of a sample from a Yamaha keyboard... it's as close as I could get.
Well, it works. It certainly sounds like a ring.
But it's not an L.A. ring!
Only an L.A. person would know that, and they probably wouldn't even think of it. And the second thing: Suzanne, my friend, is a directory assistance operator out here... she said your operator tapped the computer keys too many times.
Ooooh! Damn! I should've known that!
Yeah, I'll bet you're really broken up...
I even faked the typewriter sounds. I tried to be so authentic, and then I miss something like that!
But the first time she heard it, she said: "Yeah, that's real!" It was only the second time, listening really carefully, that she picked that up. I asked because you had her (the operator's) name listed in the credits, and I thought, "How could that be?"
Yeah, it's not like I'm trying to hide it.
But it was a great fake job.
Well, thanks. We spent a whole night on that.
What kicks in a song idea for you?
It can vary widely. It can be anything from a news broadcast, to the smell of my urine after I take a piss. Lyrically, it will usually be an event that occurs that leads to lyrics.
Do you tend to get your music before the lyrics?
That's kind of hard to say... sometimes I'll have the music and then put lyrics on it, but usually it's the other way around. Usually there's an idea, and the music and lyrics sort of develop together. If it's an instrumental, then it's something that comes to me while I'm asleep, or sitting on the sofa, trying to think of melodic ideas.
Do you have a cassette system of jotting down ideas?
It varies. Usually the fist thing I come up with is what sticks. I've got an alternate verson of some songs; like "Snot-Mouth Tweedle," that's the second version there... the first one, I wasn't too happy with. I've got enough stuff sitting around to make another tape, but it's just so dismal, I would be ashamed of it. I'm not gonna produce a tape like that for widespread distribution - it would be pretty bad.
How did you come up the Colgate commercial? It sounds like it's a few years old.
I don't know what year that was from. The commercial looked like a "Dick Van Dyke" episode. Rhino puts out these tapes of novelty things like dope movies, and sleaze movies, and they had this tape of commercials from the 50's and 60's. So we rented one of those one night, and the first commercial on this particular tape was that Colgate commercial. The minute I heard it, I just thought it was catchy as hell. It's so stupid sounding. The second I heard that, I decided I was gonna do it.
Did you remember it from your youth?
No, I'd never seen it before... I recorded the sound off the tape. Within a week I had it done. The woman who sings on that is the same woman who sang "I Married Bob."
What are your own personal favorites of all the songs you've recorded?
Off the first tape, "Asparagus Makes Your Urine Smell Funny." From the second one, "Darling, Can I Buy You A Taco?" "Moammar's Tractor," "Tampon Louie." From the new one, I'm pretty much sick of everything on it, so it's hard to say, but... I like the "Bob Ewbanks" thing, and I like the way "Ben" turned out, even though I didn't write it.
That's funny... none of those are the ones that I like. (Laughs).
Yeah, those are the ones that most people don't like. Most people like "Kill For God" and "Georgy Girl."
I love "Georgy Girl! I think you did "Ben" well, but I think the original song is such a reprehensible, unlistenable piece of shit, that...
I couldn't agree more.
...even though you're doing it, it still didn't work for me, because it reminds me of the song, it reminds me of Michael Jackson, and it reminds me of that movie I hated.
I couldn't agree more. I had the same feelings about "Georgy Girl" though; I think that's an awful song too. But another reason "Ben" got in there was that it tied in with Ernest Borgnine... kind of a last minute addition, it was almost the last song I did, but... the song on the previous side ends with "Ben" fading out, and then I thought: "Gee, why not do the whole thing?" And I really liked the way it turned out; that's probably the one song I still like to listen to. You never know what other people are gonna like.
What are your least favorite songs?
"People Are Scum," just because I think it could have been done a hell of a lot better. I'm not that fond of "I Put A Spell On You." I think it's a great song, I just don't think I did it very well. Off the second tape, I was disappointed with "Cat Litter Polka." It sounded better in my mind than it ended up. On the new tape, "Protect and Serve," which I know you like, I like it but I think it could have been better. It's edited poorly.
(Incredulous) Well, there's no accounting for the taste of the guy that made it.
But that's a lot more difficult song to record, too, and that's why it's that way, too. That was a very involved song, it took a long time.
I can't imagine it being any better.
Well, thanks. To me, that was the one I was really afraid of when I put the tape out; I was afraid it was going to be the "weak" one. But I was so tired of it by the time I was done, that probably had a lot to do with it. "Snot-Mouth On the Beach" could have been better. Around here, people just love "Fog and the Dew" - I think it's because the lyrics are not too deep, and it's got a beat, and it's pissed off, and people can link up to it real quick. That song was gonna be an Irish jig when I wrote it, with a fiddle in the background. But I can't find a fiddle player or a bagpipe player, so I figured, "Well, let's make it a rap song."
08/05/06 09:49:59
Jethro Deluxe: The Wallmen Interview (by Bryan Baker, 1992)
CATEGORY: interview
Why don’t you give me a history of the Wallmen.
( comments)
Well, for a quick rundown, we’ve just been playing and doing things since 1984. That’s when we started playing out and putting out recordings.
Do you play out a lot then?
Once or twice a month.
It’s as much a live act as a recording act?
Yeah.
What about your last tape?
It contains songs we’ve been playing live for the last year and a half, two years, and we just got around to putting a lot of it out or finishing it off.
How did you get involved with networking?
I guess, just seeing other people’s ads. You know, just trying to get the tape out to different places and different people all the time.
How extensive is your networking?
We rely on mostly reviews and advertising. The same people aren’t going to be around every time you put a new tape, so we make new contacts with each release that way.
How come you decided to go with color covers this time out?
Because they look better and we just make so many that it’s not something I can just sit here and make one-off copies as people request them.
How many did you make?
About 500 copies of our last release and we don’t have any left. The next one will probably be about 600.
Do sell most of them?
Mostly give-away. We trade tapes with a lot of people. We don’t wait for someone to make contact with us, we just send out tapes to people we think might want to hear the tape or whose tape we might want to hear.
So is the Wallmen mainly a band thing or is there also solo work involved?
Some of the songs are where maybe one person is involved or some of the people in the band, but a lot of it more and more is done with the whole band involved in the recording.
What I like most about the Wallmen style is the seeming fascination with the recording process and trying out new things. You never stay in one place for any great length of time.
Yeah, a lot of times when we do things live it will turn into a sort of rock style, but we like to try different things and record in different ways. We got a couple things coming out that were done in a 24-track studio. It sounds way different than the last tape which was done at home on 4-track cassette. It’s different because you have to work so fast because of the cost; but the sound is a lot better. With 4-track the sound just isn’t there.